How攵 is “hand holding staff”?

[phoneticsem]

败 bài is composed of 贝 bèi and 攵 “hand holding staff,” which indicate the original meaning “to destroy.”

 

攵 “hand holding staff,” => Any one using outliers dictionary explain details of how (攵 = rap, tap ) becoming “hand holding staff,” ?

 

 

 

 

[mouse]

On 1/16/2022 at 12:37 AM, phoneticsem said:

Any one using outliers dictionary explain details of how (攵 = rap, tap ) becoming “hand holding staff,” ?

 

Outlier says that 攵 originally was a picture of a hand holding an implement ("whip, a horsewhip, or a wooden staff") which indicated the meaning of hitting something. So you have it the wrong way round.

[OneEye]

That's exactly right. 攴/攵 originally depicted a hand (又) holding a staff or other implement, indicating the original meaning, " to strike, to hit." You can tap on the component itself in the entry for 败 to see our explanation of the component.

[phoneticsem]

staff = a long stick used as a support when walking or climbing or as a weapon.

 

initially, I was not sure  of what is the other meaning of staff. now more clear.

 

败 bài to destroy and to be destroyed; both opposite meanings for the single char?

[Publius]

On 1/18/2022 at 1:59 PM, phoneticsem said:

败 bài to destroy and to be destroyed; both opposite meanings for the single char?

Yes, it's not uncommon for intransitive and transitive verbs to have the same form. For example, 坏 'to spoil', 水果易坏 'Fruits spoil easily', 我不想坏你好事 'I don't want to spoil your fun.' Or 'The cliffs are being constantly eroded by heavy seas' vs 'The rocks have gradually eroded away.'

 

[phoneticsem]

1. 玫 méi rose : how hand holding jade stick  becomes rose?

=> I think there is no flower radical, so the stem of rose looks like a stick and the nearest radical, the script creator can use is Jade radical for flower. So i will go with that assumption

=> ARCHAIC =>    a kind of jade    It seems there is an old meaning of jade

 

 

2. 枚 méi tree trunk or walking stick = Hand holding stick of wood is trunk of a tree. This is a unique assumption

 

 

败 bài how hand holding stick of sea shell/currency  becomes “to destroy.”? 

=> There must be some thing with hand holding whip defeating others and get money and some sort of connection should be there to this. I assume some thing to uniquely remember that

 

Outlier thanks for sharing  hand holding stick /Staff. Some words, I can uniquely remember the 攵 . earlier with rap/tap meaning somehow i can not connect it.

[phoneticsem]

I am going through 畟 = plough. In the below image the staff is visible, which I am familiar with. Thanks again @mouse and @oneEye, @pubilius

[phoneticsem]

On 1/18/2022 at 10:59 AM, OneEye said:

That's exactly right. 攴/攵 originally depicted a hand (又) holding a staff or other implement, indicating the original meaning, " to strike, to hit." You can tap on the component itself in the entry for 败 to see our explanation of the component.

Sometimes giving an image has more advantages especially with chinese characters rather giving details in multiple pages