Requesting feedback on my pronunciation

[alantin]

Hi all,

 

I've seen other sometimes post videos here and requesting feedback on their pronunciation, so I thought I'd give it a try too and embarrass myself. ?

 

I recorded a very short video talking about my Chinese study and I thought I could also later make another video after a year or so and compare. My tutors tell me that they don't have trouble understanding me and I have made a lot of progress over the last year, but I'm still quite unsure about my pronunciation (especially the tones but many initials also give me grief). So I'd like to receive honest feedback from the community here.

 

I know that especially distinguishing between zh/ch/sh and z/c/s are quite difficult for me and I'm currently working with a tutor to improve this.

 

 

The video is available behind the link. This is after three years and a couple of months of study in a non Chinese speaking environment.

http://164.92.250.67/Camera_22-01-28_18-03-14-1.mov

 

Much appreciated!

[abcdefg]

The link does not work when I click it (in the US, using a Windows 10 laptop.)

[alantin]

@abcdefg, that’s odd. It’s just a file on a virtual server behind a plain unencrypted http connection… opens for me on my iPhone and mac using safari and firefox respectively.

 

what kind of an error does it give you?

 

P.s. I just tried it on a remote windows machine in PRC using Firefox. It worked. Maybe your browser doesn't stream the video or something.

[Jan Finster]

Well done

 

You speak very "fluent" (i.e. there is a nice flow)

 

My only feeback (I am not that experienced): You tend to pronounce the zh/ch/sh like people from Sichuan. Regarding the tones, I am not sure, if they are always correct, my ear is not that good. I found them quite subtle at times and that makes it hard for me to tell if correct/incorrect. Nevertheless, I can definitely understand you without problems [but I would also understand it from context without tones, so I am not sure foreigners are a good judge)

 

(And the Kā in 咖啡 sounded very Finnish ?  

[alantin]

@Jan Finster, Thank you! "subtle" tones makes sense. Finnish is a very toneless language, so they don't come naturally.

 

On 1/28/2022 at 8:17 PM, Jan Finster said:

(And the Kā in 咖啡 sounded very Finnish ?

 

A Finn must have KAHVI! prkl! ?

 

Are you a fellow Finn by any chance?

[Jan Finster]

On 1/28/2022 at 7:37 PM, alantin said:

a fellow Finn by any chance?

 

some relatives are

[abcdefg]

@alantin -- No error message, the browser just rejects the link. I'm pretty sure the problem is on my end. I recently installed a new over zealous anti-malware program and it is now protecting me from things I actually want to see and hear. I will play around with it and disconnect it for a while. Sorry for the false alarm. 

[EnergyReaper]

On 1/29/2022 at 4:58 AM, abcdefg said:

No error message, the browser just rejects the link.

I use a windows 10 PC and Google Chrome version 96. In the first place, when I clicked the link, a new pop-up window was about to open but then closed immediately. Then I right-click the link, and clicked the "链接另存为..." menu to save the file to my PC. When the download finished, Chrome promted like "你下载的文件不安全，是否保留？". Then I clicked "保留" button, and I got the file.

Maybe the reason is that chinese-forums uses the https protocol and the link uses the http protocol, so Chrome treats the link as unsafe. I searched for a solution on the Internet and found one. First, click the lock-like button before the link address of chinese-forums on the omnibar of Chrome, and a menu will pop up. Second, click "网站设置" on the menu, and you will go to the setting page for chinese-forums. Third, if you see the setting for "不安全内容" is "屏蔽（默认）", then change it to "允许". Now, try clicking the link again, it will work.

[EnergyReaper]

@alantin Your pronunciation of zh/ch/sh and z/c/s is good. The problem is you didn't pronounce some tones consistently right, e.g. 聊一聊. You can practise this style of words in a sentece more, like 谈一谈，看一看，想一想，听一听.

Another thing: You said "...这样的视频应该是一个非常好的办法，来xiāng bǐ(相比？)我的口语的水平". I'm not sure if you used 相比 here. It sounds odd to me as I never used 相比 like that.

[suMMit]

I didn't  open the link, just dowloaded the file and it worked fine.

 

I think your Chinese voice is really very pleasant to listen to and I understood everything easily. I've been studying  around the same about of time as you, so please take my comments with a grain of salt...

 

口语 on first listen I thought you said covid?.

水平 sounded like shui4ping3 to me.

当时 I heard Deng1.

出差 sounded like su1cai1.

Maybe the 会 of 机会 sounded more like a third tone.

At the end of the video 今天 sounded to "short" to me.

Somewhere I heard a 呀 that sounded very European.

 

[alantin]

On 1/29/2022 at 2:46 AM, EnergyReaper said:

Maybe the reason is that chinese-forums uses the https protocol and the link uses the http protocol, so Chrome treats the link as unsafe.

Internet traffic is getting more and more encrypted all the time and I just placed that file on a plain http server I happened to have. It doesn't have https set up and not even DNS setting. It works for the purpose, but nowadays you get warnings in these cases about the site not providing the encryption and the missing DNS settings are probably interpreted by some security software as a potential command and control channel for malware. Though those usually use a lot more sophisticated solutions nowadays.

 

 

On 1/29/2022 at 3:46 AM, EnergyReaper said:

@alantin Your pronunciation of zh/ch/sh and z/c/s is good. The problem is you didn't pronounce some tones consistently right, e.g. 聊一聊. You can practise this style of words in a sentece more, like 谈一谈，看一看，想一想，听一听.

Another thing: You said "...这样的视频应该是一个非常好的办法，来xiāng bǐ(相比？)我的口语的水平". I'm not sure if you used 相比 here. It sounds odd to me as I never used 相比 like that.

 

Thank you for the feedback!

I'm glad that the practice on zh/ch/sh and z/c/s seems to be working! And 聊一聊 and others are good pointer! I didn't realize I had a consistency problem there!

Yeah, 相比, I recorded that without any preparation, other than a couple of (dozen) tries before getting it all out in one go. How to say that was something I wasn't sure about, but I didn't go google an answer for it. That's exactly the kind of mistake I currently make a lot in my speech and writing.

 

On 1/29/2022 at 7:42 AM, suMMit said:

I didn't  open the link, just dowloaded the file and it worked fine.

 

I think your Chinese voice is really very pleasant to listen to and I understood everything easily. I've been studying  around the same about of time as you, so please take my comments with a grain of salt...

 

Thank you! ?

I remember a time when my tutors had trouble understanding me because of odd cadence and stops in odd places. I've definitely come a long way from that!
Thanks for the pointers! I'll take care to pronounce those more carefully!
 

[phills]

@alantin  Very nice!  Better than my speaking ability I think

 

I understood everything, no need for subtitles.  The only strange pronunciation that leapt out at me was 出差.

 

Also, my other impression was your audio was missing some "h"-sounds.  I think that's what you mean by trouble "distinguishing between zh/ch/sh and z/c/s".

 

Another thing I noticed is something I also suffer from.  Over longer sentences, your tones start drifting.  But as I see it, from the point of view of the listener, it beats the alternative, stopping every 2 or 3 words, to reset your intonation.

[alantin]

On 1/29/2022 at 8:28 AM, phills said:

Another thing I noticed is something I also suffer from.  Over longer sentences, your tones start drifting.  But as I see it, from the point of view of the listener, it beats the alternative, stopping every 2 or 3 words, to reset your intonation.

 

Makes sense. I took advice at some point that you shouldn't worry about tones or pronunciation while actually speaking for this specific reason. So I do tone and pronunciation practice as it's own separate thing and trust that their effects will carry over to normal speaking. It did help with the weird cadence and stops problem I mentioned earlier. I'm hoping more pronunciation practice and more speaking will fix the drifting too. Maybe I'll do some shadowing again at some point.

[Jan Finster]

On 1/29/2022 at 2:46 AM, EnergyReaper said:

like 谈一谈，看一看，想一想，听一听.

 

May I ask: do you guys pronounce the "一" neutral&short in those cases or with normally and with tone sandhi? I believe I have come across both versions?

[alantin]

On 1/29/2022 at 10:28 AM, Jan Finster said:

On 1/29/2022 at 3:46 AM, EnergyReaper said:

like 谈一谈，看一看，想一想，听一听.

 

May I ask: do you guys pronounce the "一" neutral&short in those cases or with normally and with tone sandhi? I believe I have come across both versions?

 

 

I just talked about and practiced this with a tutor. She says it must be read with the tone sandhi and that she has noticed that many foreigners have trouble pronouncing the tone in 一 in those clearly enough.

[Jan Finster]

On 1/29/2022 at 10:15 AM, alantin said:

trouble pronouncing the tone in 一 in those clearly enough.

 

Interesting. Thanks. I was under the impression that natives put less stress on 一 (e.g. 看一看). So, basically, duration and stress are equal in those three characters (?!)

[EnergyReaper]

@Jan Finster Usually, "一" is pronounced neutral and short in those cases in everyday chats. That's the rule when 一 is between two same verbs.

     But when you hear a person do a cadenced recitation slowly, word by word, you will probably hear different versions, and I guess that's the situation when alantin's tutor taught him as she may usually spoke slowly to make alantin understand more easily. As for how “一” being read in this case, that depends on the reader's habits. I think you don't need to follow the rules perfectly, but you should try to pronounce the verbs right in tones, not like how alantin pronounced 聊 of 聊一聊 in the video. By the way, his pronunciation of 看一看 in the video is good.

[EnergyReaper]

@alantin Next time, maybe you can try a practice that many native Chinese southerners feel difficult. That's the difference between "N" and "L". （I hope your turtor is a native Chinese northerner ?）

First, try this sentence: 这家总部位于荷兰的河南分公司生产的牛奶榴莲糖很好吃.

Then, try this tongue twister:

     南南家种兰花，

     兰兰家种南瓜，

南南要用兰花换兰兰家的南瓜，

兰兰不愿用南瓜换南南家的兰花。

（南南 and 兰兰 are the names of two girls.）

[suMMit]

On 1/29/2022 at 5:15 PM, alantin said:

She says it must be read with the tone sandhi and that she has noticed that many foreigners have trouble pronouncing the tone in 一 in those clearly enough.

 

On 1/29/2022 at 5:55 PM, EnergyReaper said:

Usually, "一" is pronounced neutral and short in those cases in everyday chats. That's the rule when 一 is between two same verbs.

 

Haha so annoying. I think this is why I rarely ever ask my tutors any questions about the language.

[alantin]

On 1/29/2022 at 12:29 PM, suMMit said:

Haha so annoying. I think this is why I rarely ever ask my tutors any questions about the language.

Well. You do get the proper answer. ?