1 v 1 lessons as an advanced learner...worth it?

[Badger]

I am at an advanced level of Chinese (HSK6), but learning Chinese is endless and I still spend 10-15 hours a week studying even after 8 years. There is still plenty that I don't know. My question is, what is it like to have 1 on 1 lessons as an advanced learner? Anyone have any experience? Currently, I typically watch programs, do some writing, and talk for 5+ hours a week with Chinese friends who correct my Chinese as we are talking. 

 

But my company has a credit where I COULD use it on Chinese learning, but not sure if it is worth it or should use the credit for some other activity.

 

Cheers

[KupGriye]

I think lessons are useless for an advanced learner. In my experience, language learning is all about input, output and grammar. A lesson that has nothing to give you or improve you in any of those 3 areas, is a waste of time and money. Now, you are HSK 6 so I'll guess you don't think about going to a teacher for the study of grammar. you speak with your friends in Chinese for hours every week, so I'll infer that you are not thinking about studying with a teacher for the lack of output ("speaking time"). This leaves only input. from my experience, there is nothing a teacher in a lesson can give you to read that is better than using this time to read extensively on your own. there is also no audio file a teacher can give you for "listening practice", that is more effective than watching a Chinese television series without subtitles and giving your ears a chance to truly open for the language. 

 

I suspect that you reached a plateau because you do not read (at least you didn't mention reading). There is a big gap between the 5,000 HSK 6 words and the vocabulary needed for near-native level. This is a gap that cannot be closed by a teacher, and I believe more will attest to that. This is a gap that can be closed by reading novels, and closed even faster by reading novels where you are at a 98% comprehension to begin with. 

 

good luck!

 

 

[Jan Finster]

If the company pays for it, I would not think twice about it. In fact, I believe it is very good at all levels. 

 

[amytheorangutan]

In my personal opinion it could still be beneficial. Just find a teacher that you like, maybe similar hobbies, similar interests and then if there are areas of topics that you would like to brush up you can talk about that topic and learn some vocabularies that are probably not very frequently used and quite specialised. 
 

Even though talking to your friends is useful I still think there is a different benefit to talking with a teacher, no matter how good your friend is at correcting you, they would still let quite a lot slip and probably if you use vocabulary that is not exactly suitable but they understand it, they would most likely let it slip because after all the whole point of the conversation is to socialise, as long as conversation flows and they could understand you even if your vocabulary usage might be a bit weird they’ll most likely let it slide while a teacher, if you tell them exactly what you want, will pay attention and correct you and tell you what vocabulary might be more suitable to use etc because they are trained to do that. 
 

I’m not as advance as you but recently I had 3 lessons with my Italki teacher where we talked specifically about house buying because we both went through the process at almost the same time, everything from the process, the problems we face, what we plan to do in the future with it, different type of properties and the rules surrounding it in our respective countries, what to look out for etc. I learned so many new vocabularies that I would have never learned from textbook, drama or novel, unless maybe if I look for a very special program where they talk about property in details but I personally would find that so boring.

 

So I think it could still be very useful to learn and brush up vocabularies on certain topics in depth or certain topics that are quite specialised. Just make sure to make it clear what you want to get out of these lessons from the teacher. 

[becky82]

I have to agree that it's uncertain that it can provide tangible value (it's possibly 得不偿失).  Most one-on-one Chinese teachers have next to no experience at teaching HSK6-level students (students often discontinue studies at the HSK4 level).  [What's worse is that they often don't want to lose face and admit they're not able to help.]  Moreover, at the HSK6 level, specialized topics become more important, and teachers may not even know the relevant vocabulary in specialized areas.  (There are some who specialize in business Chinese, if you're interested in that.)

 

Even if you're lucky enough to find one who has suitable skills, you still might find yourself thinking "wouldn't I be better off reading a book, or learning vocabulary items one by one via a dictionary, or writing an article and posting it online for corrections, or reading aloud or shadowing?"  At the HSK6 level, you're almost always able to solve your own problems.  And it's quite possible that classes are a distraction.

 

On the other hand, some students prefer class-like environments, and get motivation and guidance from teachers.  It depends on your style.  Maybe you need to be concrete, and identify which areas you can improve yourself, and which areas (if any) would benefit from a teacher: reading, writing, listening, speaking, vocabulary, grammar.

[889]

It can be worth it, but you have to take charge and work on your weaknesses. For example, after eight years of mostly book learning not in China I assume, your speech is probably not all that clear.

 

Also, study by yourself too much and you start to develop some bad habits and just get some things completely wrong without ever realizing it. Useful to have someone there to pull you back on track.

 

[abcdefg]

On 3/2/2022 at 7:07 PM, becky82 said:

Even if you're lucky enough to find one who has suitable skills, you still might find yourself thinking "wouldn't I be better off reading a book, or learning vocabulary items one by one via a dictionary, or writing an article and posting it online for corrections, or reading aloud or shadowing?"

 

"...or writing an article and posting it online for corrections..."

 

I found that to be very helpful, well worth the time and effort. Used to do it on Lang-8. Over time, I learned which native speakers were most careful and reliable. Would try to give their comments the most attention. 

[dakonglong]

I stopped taking HSK tests at level 4, but I have a vocabulary above 5,000 words, so I would say I'm somewhere in the HSK6 ball park, if not quite there yet. I meet with a teacher weekly and I find it extremely helpful, specifically because of the way the lessons are structured. Most of the lessons are:

 

1/3 free conversation.

 

1/3 correcting an article I have written as homework on a topic my teacher has chosen. This helps me transition new specialized vocabulary from my passive to active vocabulary, and helps me understand when I have messed up word order or used the wrong synonym

 

1/3 reading out loud, and then translating an article. This helps my pronunciation (my teacher will point out all of the places where my pronunciation was wrong) and helps me learn new grammar points (my teacher will point out where I have skipped words or mistranslated phrases in the article). I can usually get the meaning right but will miss subtle details like reading "as a result of x, y" as "x happened then y" and things like that.

 

I find this helpful because these are all things I cannot train as well on my own.

 

That being said, these lessons only represent 5% - 10% of my total study time. I would use the lessons as a way to "polish" your Chinese vs cram new material. You can do that part on your own by reading, watching TV, etc...

 

[markhavemann]

Do professional sports teams have coaches? Can you find a high level team (or sportsman) that doesn't?

 

Being at a high level doesn't mean you don't need a teacher, it just means that lots of teachers probably won't be able to help you much, just like a high school sports coach probably won't be able to provide anything to an olympic athlete, even though he is more than able to teach lower levels. 

 

 

[Jan Finster]

On 3/3/2022 at 6:31 AM, markhavemann said:

Do professional sports teams have coaches? Can you find a high level team (or sportsman) that doesn't?

 

Being at a high level doesn't mean you don't need a teacher, it just means that lots of teachers probably won't be able to help you much, just like a high school sports coach probably won't be able to provide anything to an olympic athlete, even though he is more than able to teach lower levels.

 

This is basically my attitude towards it (I was just too lazy to write it down?). I would say at an advanced level group sessions are a waste of time and 1:1 is a must.

I would definitely not just take any "community tutor" on Italki, but a properly trained Chinese teacher. Possibly even a teacher, who teaches Chinese high school or college students. I am sure they can work on nuances and on using the right expressions in speaking and writing. Advanced students may be fluent, but they may have an odd (or non-idiomatic) way of expressing things.

[abcdefg]

On 3/3/2022 at 6:36 AM, Jan Finster said:

Advanced students may be fluent, but they may have an odd (or non-idiomatic) way of expressing things.

 

Agree! Good point. That sums up my situation. 

 

(I probably have no business even posting in this thread since it would be a stretch to call my Chinese truly "advanced.") 

[PerpetualChange]

I echo what others have said here: at the higher level, you really need to advocate for yourself in terms of what you want and what you can improve. 

It could easily become a chat session without a clear agenda, and you're beyond a lot of the formal structures that a teacher would lean with a less advanced student. 

 

[杰.克]

Its worth it. More time spent doing Chinese is always worth it. 1 to 1 tutorials probably being peak worth it learning.

 

As PerpetualChange says, it does lead into more of a conversation if your not disciplined/ prepped with what you want to study. I personally like this though. I try to make all of my learning experiences nowadays fun. I've put the years and years effort in. I want it to be fun now.

 

I have been doing things in my 1 on 1s like - memorizing poems, and have my teacher sit and listen and correct me. Or watching a TV programme together and discussing it. Or these quirky types of things. I very rarely now sit and do grammar points, or follow a HSK chapter, or learn a set of 30 words and test them. Faaaaarrrr toooooo boooorinngggggg for my liking.

[Jan Finster]

On 3/3/2022 at 4:19 PM, 杰.克 said:

follow a HSK chapter, or learn a set of 30 words and test them. Faaaaarrrr toooooo boooorinngggggg for my liking.

 

This has made me stop doing classes with my tutor 1.5 years ago. I just could not bear it any longer.

[道艺]

crazy to me how many people think being 'advanced' means being above having a tutor.

 

the tutor is, after all, a native speaker, paid to listen attentively to your speech, intonation, phrasing etc. as good as having friends are to chat with there are limits to how much they'll step in to correct, as someone else said, due to either social etiquette or because they don't have the energy to be your living breathing spellcheck. think about talking to some Chinese acquaintance who asks you, ''this two days do you go to exercise a lot?'' under what circumstance are you going to step in and say something?

 

on top of all this, they are classes covered by company budget. are ppl here too arrogant or just used to looking a gift horse in the mouth?!

[Flickserve]

Donate the lessons to me please. 

[Insectosaurus]

On 3/5/2022 at 1:56 PM, 道艺 said:

crazy to me how many people think being 'advanced' means being above having a tutor.

 

It all depends on what your goals are and your situation in general. I'm not in the least interested in getting an English tutor.

[suMMit]

On 3/2/2022 at 1:42 PM, Badger said:

But my company has a credit where I COULD use it on Chinese learning, but not sure if it is worth it or should use the credit for some other activity.

To be fair, the op said the credit cud be used for chinese learning or other activities. So, its not like they'd be thrown away if not used for 1 on 1 chinese lessons.

 

I'm not at an advanced level, but I'm sure there's still something to be gained at any level. I envision when I am at that level, maybe having one session a week with a tutor to work on whatever I'm interested at that point.

[KupGriye]

I would even say that beyond a certain level, a teacher is counterproductive and damaging. I'm from a non English speaking country where not only practically everybody studies a foreign language, but they all study the same foreign language (that is, English). Therefor, I am in the perfect position to compare between the two populations - those who get truly fluent in English and those who don't. Both of the populations get the same amount of years and hours of English instruction in school. The group that gets fluent is the one that outside of the classroom reads, listens or speak English. It might be binge watching the seven seasons of Mad Men and then moving on the the next series, it might be playing video games all day long in English, it might be following English language media, it might be a love for Justin Bieber or for Leonard Cohen, and so on. The other group doesn't do any of that stuff. It's that simple of a rule. I remember very well the video games where I got stuck because I didn't understand the English, or plowing through English novels where I didn't know tons of words (The grapes of wrath took me 2 months) or wanting to download and watch woody Allen Films but not understanding a lot of the stuff because they didn;t have subtitles, and then reading the plain scripts.  This is what leads to fluency. 

 

The reason why a teacher can even damage an advanced student is because the mindset of improving your Chinese by switching from teacher A to teacher B or adding another lesson on Wednesdays, just keeps an HSK 6 student from engaging in the activities that will lead to his fluency. Should you take this damage just because the company pays for it?  

 

and by the way, your Chinese probably has thousands of mistake. having a teacher correct one is like a drop in the sea. They will be corrected naturally without you even knowing it after millions of characters you'll read and after many episodes and film you watch. 

[Moshen]

Quote

and by the way, your Chinese probably has thousands of mistake. having a teacher correct one is like a drop in the sea. They will be corrected naturally without you even knowing it after millions of characters you'll read and after many episodes and film you watch. 

 

I don't agree with this.  I know native Chinese speakers who have lived and worked in the US for 30 years and they still can't use "he" and "she" correctly in English.  This hasn't gotten correct naturally at all.  And I'm sure the same is true of Chinese learners who clock intensive reading and listening and just aren't aware of their mistakes.

 

I agree that a bad language teacher can do harm, but that's true of any type of learning, at any level.  And a good teacher can help, also at any level.  Even advanced.