How many words should I learn? Im hsk4

[Jony112314]

I know 2500 words, the first 4 hsk and all sorts of different ones. I'm going to learn hsk5 words, how many do you think it's better to take. right now my speed is about 10-20 words a day. I was recently told that I should take at least 30 or 50. What do you think?

 

I may be able to take new words, but now in my pleco 550 words out of the active 2650 are not learned. this is about 21%, which is why I doubt whether it is worth increasing volumes. but I don't want to stagnate

[malazann]

bro. I'mma be straight with you. This is a dumb ass question. But I'll just list a few things to consider:

- time available

- learning goals (conversational? Reading? Understanding Media?)

- listening/reading/speaking abilities

etc etc

 

but if you want a blind answer, stick to 10-20 words and spend more time reading/listening and building up some proficiency/fluency. Just because you can recognise a pleco card and it's english definitition, it doesn't mean you "know" the word

[markhavemann]

On 3/27/2022 at 7:01 PM, malazann said:

bro. I'mma be straight with you. This is a dumb ass question. 

I very slightly agree, but I think this question might be more like "What is a reasonable upper limit for cramming HSK vocabulary, and how much did you do?", which is a less dumb question.

 

To answer what I think your question is:

When I was preparing for HSK 4 and 5, and about half of 6, I often did 100 words a day. This was in bursts though and it's not something you can keep up for too long.

 

I won't say it was "learning" words, more like "familiarising" myself with them. I'd go through and choose words from the list that I thought were interesting or easy (defintely don't go top to bottom). Then I'd write them down on paper and put them into Anki. Don't use default Anki intervals or your review volume will be insane, tweak the settings to make pretty big intervals for correct answers so you mostly only spend time on things you forget. Or, use short intervals and be ready to delete your deck soon (it's cramming after all).

 

HSK vocab is definitely useful enough that cramming is worth it in my opinion. It primes you to be able to actually start to absorb words when you encounter them. As Matt vs Japan says, it makes a dictionary entry in your brain that you can fill properly later.

[Jan Finster]

Unless you have to pass HSK 5 for some reason at a particular time, I would just continue learning Chinese and enjoy the process. 

 

I think the most realistic approximation of how many words you can learn is around 3-5 new words per hour spent on Chinese:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kYbqud5QAg&t=900s&ab_channel=Poly-glot-a-lot (see 3:20)

 

 

[abcdefg]

On 3/26/2022 at 11:18 PM, Jony112314 said:

I know 2500 words, the first 4 hsk and all sorts of different ones. I'm going to learn hsk5 words, how many do you think it's better to take. right now my speed is about 10-20 words a day. I was recently told that I should take at least 30 or 50. What do you think?

 

As others have suggested, need to clarify your goals and objectives before anyone here can help you find ways to go about meeting them. 

 

Generally speaking, "30 or 50" words a day is too many for most people unless you are just cramming for an exam. It would be a recipe for burnout, at least it would for me.  

[Jony112314]

I spend about 7 hours a day on Chinese, seven days a week, about 5m of active study. hsk4 174/300. I take hsk in a month and I can clearly see good scores without knowing all the hsk5 words. because each question has at least 1 word from hsk5. this is almost under 100 hsk5 words in 1 hsk4 test. I have weak listening, but I'm working on it.

 

I take hsk in a month and I cant clearly see good scores without knowing all the hsk5 words. **

 

Recommend resources to prepare for reading. my letter seems to be in order. but bad with reading and listening. I have olny 1 month

[abcdefg]

Welcome to the forum. I understand your situation better now. I'm sure you will get some excellent suggestions here on HSK prep strategies and resources.  

[becky82]

My strategy for increasing vocabulary is to "study many words, and accept I'll forget a large proportion".  This may sound bad, but my experience is that it's more wasteful (and frustrating) to force yourself to learn words you're not ready for.  Some words have dependencies: if you go to the dictionary and look up a word's definition, it might be defined in terms of a word you haven't studied (you need to learn this other word first).  Moreover, when you're learning, you may not be aware of these dependencies.  Order is important.

 

At the HSK5+ level, you really need to increase your depth and precision.  Thus, I recommend learning from a Chinese-Chinese dictionary (one that gives parts of speech).  If you learn from a Chinese-English dictionary, you waste a lot of time learning the differences in English/Chinese definitions; it's not a problem for words like 长颈鹿 ("giraffe"), but is a massive problem for words like 忌讳 (usually translated to "taboo", but functions as a verb, and is used more broadly in Chinese).  If you can't understand a word's definition in a Chinese-Chinese dictionary, it indicates you are not ready to learn that word (unmet dependencies).

 

 

For me, I find studying maybe 20-25 words in a day is plenty, with the assumption that I'll "forget" maybe 10 or so (although I'm guessing I have relatively high standards when it comes to knowing a word).  I'll need to revise these words on multiple separate days to make sure they stick.

 

Beyond this, just read a lot: you pick up a lot of words that way.  It's hard to forget the words you're studying if you also encounter them in the wild.

[suMMit]

I'm halfway through Hsk-4 标准课程 and I know aprox 6,000 words.  I've studied from lots of other sources besides hsk materials and I've also been moving up slowly rather than blazing from hsk 1 - 6 (though I often wonder which is better, faster or slower?). So, for me 3.5 years averages out to around 5 words a day.

[suMMit]

On 3/29/2022 at 7:53 AM, becky82 said:

but is a massive problem for words like 忌讳 (usually translated to "taboo", but functions as a verb, and is used more broadly in Chinese). 

This is exactly why I hate it why Chinese teachers/learning videos employ English. You come across a new word and they are so quick to translate it into English, but the word functions differently in the two languages.

[Lu]

On 3/29/2022 at 1:53 AM, becky82 said:

If you learn from a Chinese-English dictionary, you waste a lot of time learning the differences in English/Chinese definitions; it's not a problem for words like 长颈鹿 ("giraffe"), but is a massive problem for words like 忌讳 (usually translated to "taboo", but functions as a verb, and is used more broadly in Chinese).

This is an issue I run into as well. Especially a lot of words around feelings and atmosphere have a rather broad range of meaning when one attempts to translate it, and when the meaning is so broad I don't find those words suitable to include in my Anki decks. The downside of this is that I don't really learn those words very well either, because I don't come across every specific word that often. So there is something to be said for learning words like 忌讳 anyway, so that you recognise them when you encounter them and gradually get a grasp of their full meaning and useage.

[Woodford]

There are many words that never cease to be awkward to my English mind....it seems that some Chinese words have a "semantic domain" that may overlap with an equivalent English word in some ways, but not in others. For instance, I can't fathom how one word, 爽快, can mean both "refreshed/rejuvenated" and "straightforward/frank." English may have a word that encompasses both meanings, but I can't immediately think of any such word. I haven't kept a list of these Chinese words, but on occasion, I feel like I run into a word that's defined something like, "banana, uncomfortable, desire, offend" (okay, I exaggerate).

At one point, my Chinese tutor and I were talking about how waiters in Chinese restaurants don't expect tips (contrary to American restaurants). I responded (in Chinese), "Sometimes, if you don't pay an American waiter a tip, they'll 追求 you out of the restaurant!" He replied, "I know you're trying to say 'chase,' but that word really means 'pursue romantically.'" Ha....Vocabulary is a ceaseless struggle.

[Publius]

On 3/30/2022 at 1:57 AM, Woodford said:

on occasion, I feel like I run into a word that's defined something like, "banana, uncomfortable, desire, offend" (okay, I exaggerate).

I assure you, the feeling is mutual.

I remember stumbling upon this entry in a tiny dictionary:

bay n. 海湾；犬吠；绝境；月桂树 (since it's tiny, it didn't mention bay window or bay horse)

It's so poetically haphazard I actually remembered it.

 

'Box' is a simple enough word. Imagine just as you think you've grokked the fullness of its semantic ramifications, you run into 'a stand of box' 一丛黄杨树. (And frankly, why do you people think 打耳光 and 拳击 are related? Speaking of which, Will Smith hit Chris Rock with an open hand. I would call it a slap. But why are people making 'punchline' jokes?)

 

To us the runway in an airport and the runway in a fashion show have about the same amount of commonness as 扶手 of an armchair and 扶手 in a staircase must seem to you.

[Woodford]

On 3/29/2022 at 8:14 PM, Publius said:

I assure you, the feeling is mutual.

I remember stumbling upon this entry in a tiny dictionary:

bay n. 海湾；犬吠；绝境；月桂树 (since it's tiny, it didn't mention bay window or bay horse)

It's so poetically haphazard I actually remembered it.

 

I'm trying to search for the English words that are the worst offenders, and there are some pretty amusing ones. Like "mine."

"This is mine."
"Let's go to the gold mine."
"If you step on the mine, it will explode."

In my quick search, I've learned that the word with the most meanings is "set." That sounds right to me!

[黄有光]

On 3/27/2022 at 2:22 PM, abcdefg said:

Generally speaking, "30 or 50" words a day is too many for most people unless you are just cramming for an exam. It would be a recipe for burnout, at least it would for me.  

It depends on how deeply you are learning each word. For example, I learn 30 words per day, but I'm trading depth for breadth -- I acquire 30 new words for my passive vocabulary, but have only a weak grasp of each one. Which is fine for my current goals, but definitely insufficient for any kind of an active vocabulary.

[黄有光]

On 3/29/2022 at 7:57 PM, Woodford said:

For instance, I can't fathom how one word, 爽快, can mean both "refreshed/rejuvenated" and "straightforward/frank." English may have a word that encompasses both meanings, but I can't immediately think of any such word.

I think you are thinking about this wrong. Sometimes words can simply have multiple, unrelated meanings, and that can happen in any language.

 

For example, in English the word "bear" can mean a large, dangerous animal, or it can mean "to shoulder a burden". I don't think any English speaker in their right mind would tell you that those two meanings are part of the same semantic domain.

[Publius]

On 3/31/2022 at 12:55 AM, 黄有光 said:

On 3/30/2022 at 1:57 AM, Woodford said:

For instance, I can't fathom how one word, 爽快, can mean both "refreshed/rejuvenated" and "straightforward/frank." English may have a word that encompasses both meanings, but I can't immediately think of any such word.

Expand  

I think you are thinking about this wrong. Sometimes words can simply have multiple, unrelated meanings, and that can happen in any language.

 

For example, in English the word "bear" can mean a large, dangerous animal, or it can mean "to shoulder a burden". I don't think any English speaker in their right mind would tell you that those two meanings are part of the same semantic domain.

Actually, you are wrong.

 

'Bear' the animal and 'bear' the verb are two separate words in any decent dictionary. That 'bay' I happily cited can be traced to at least four unrelated origins. They just happen to be spelled the same in modern English. It's more like the situation where 髮 'hair' and 發 'to issue' are simplified into a single character 发.

 

But the two senses of 爽快 stem from the same root, namely 明、清. It's a state of mind that makes you feel good. It allows you to feel 舒爽 yourself, and be 豪爽 to others. This latter sense later develops further and then you have 直爽.

 

If you have to make a comparison with 'bear', consider 'to bear children', 'to bear witness', 'to bear north', all of which seem to bear no relation whatsoever to one another to a Chinese mind -- until one realizes that English 'bear' is merely a cognate of Latin 'ferre', which has another gloss, 'to bring, to carry', and is at the root of such a medley of words as transfer/translate, refer/relate, offer, proffer, conifer, aquifer, vociferous, Lucifer, difference, conference, preference, circumference, etc., etc.

[Moshen]

Quote

'Bear' the animal and 'bear' the verb are two separate words in any decent dictionary.

 

I am not a linguistics expert, but I don't believe being separated in a dictionary is evidence of there being different words.

 

In a common-sense English-speaker's view of what a word is, 'bear' the animal and 'bear' the verb are the same word with two different meanings.  They are most definitely not homonyms.  Once you start saying that different meanings make for different words, there's no end to the number of words you can identify.  Take the word "word": Is "word" in "I give you my word" a different word from "She spelled the word wrongly"?  And how about "Use your words," which a parent might say to a child who is acting out?  And then how about "Word on the street has it that X-Boy did it"?  Or "word of mouth"?  All these are separate words?  If not, why not?

[Woodford]

Yeah, to be fair to @黄有光, I think I was conflating two things: 

 

1. A single word with multiple meanings that don't seem naturally related to each other in the mind of somebody from a different language (like 爽快)

2. Homonyms, which are actually different words that happen to look like the same word--like "seal" (the marine animal) versus "seal" (an object that keeps something closed).

 

On 3/30/2022 at 5:16 PM, Publius said:

But the two senses of 爽快 stem from the same root, namely 明、清. It's a state of mind that makes you feel good. It allows you to feel 舒爽 yourself, and be 豪爽 to others. This latter sense later develops further and then you have 直爽.

 

Nice, I think I'm starting to understand that word a little better now!

 

[markhavemann]

On 3/31/2022 at 6:59 AM, Moshen said:

In a common-sense English-speaker's view of what a word is, 'bear' the animal and 'bear' the verb are the same word with two different meanings.

I definitely think of them as different words. I'm pretty sure that they are filed away in my brain in the same way that different words are filed too.

 

On the other hand, something like "throw a game" and "throw sth away" are linked really closely for me, and just shades of a single meaning of discarding something. As are the different shades of meaning of "word" that you gave, all meaning "a small unit of language" in one way or another.