Literal Translation Vs Google Translation

[phoneticsem]

凡事不能单看表面,否则会让人做出错误的判断,还可能引起误会。

 

My translation as per pleco vocabulary:

Everything can not only be seen on the surface, otherwise can cause some one to make error in judgement, still possibly lead to misunderstanding.

 

Google Translator:

Don't just look at the surface, otherwise people will make wrong judgements and may cause misunderstandings. 

 

凡事 :fánshì Everything

 

不能: 不 not; 能can; I treat as: Can not, but google make it Don’t. although both are same

 

i use kàn to see, google used it as look

 

I saw meaning for 让人 ràngrén cause somebody to;  arouse; but google used it as just people: using as people in this context as correct?

 

can you help how you understand it when reading the sentence,

 

[889]

So you'd translate 两个凡是 as "two everythings"?

 

Really, your mechanical English-to-Chinese approach is not a good approach. You need to concentrate on learning a sense of a Chinese word's meaning without tying it to what you or your dictionary think is a precise English equivalent. In short, use fuzzy logic.

 

And the best way to develop this second sense is to read and read and read.

[phoneticsem]

On 7/2/2022 at 3:11 PM, 889 said:

 

So you'd translate 两个凡是 as "two everythings"?

 

I was referring 事 for thing or matter.  you got confused  between 事 and 是 I think.

 

两个凡是: Did not come across through this, but I will interpret this as All two or both, if i faced this word in my reading. 

[889]

It's a famous political slogan.

[phoneticsem]

我和太太日前到一家自助火锅店用餐时,便目睹了因错误判断而引起的误会。

 

Fewdays ago myself and wife went to self serving hot pot restaurant to eat a meal, soon afterwards saw with my own eyes cause mistake lead to misunderstanding. 

 

Google  translation:

My wife and I witnessed a misunderstanding caused by misjudgment when we dined at a self-service hot pot restaurant the other day.

 

any one knows how 一家 is used in above sentence?

 

 

[Moshen]

一 = a (article)
家 = measure word for 自助火锅店

[phoneticsem]

On 7/4/2022 at 7:48 AM, Moshen said:

一 = a (article)
家 = measure word for 自助火锅店

 

we can call a restaurant as restaurant or family restaurant. There might be some difference, but can use any one. Similarly shall we use 一家自助火锅店 without 一家? or is it incorrect to use 自助火锅店 ?

[imron]

On 7/4/2022 at 1:28 AM, phoneticsem said:

we can call a restaurant as restaurant or family restaurant.

A family restaurant is a type of restaurant that caters to families.  Not all restaurants are family restaurants, and it is an incorrect to translate 一家自助火锅店 as a "hotpot family restaurant".  As other posters have noted 家 in this context is simply the measure word for restaurant and does not convey any meaning as to whether or not this is a family restaurant.

 

On 7/4/2022 at 1:28 AM, phoneticsem said:

Similarly shall we use 一家自助火锅店 without 一家? or is it incorrect to use 自助火锅店 ?

It depends on whether you are using 自助火锅店 in a way that requires a measure word or not.

 

On 7/2/2022 at 5:42 AM, phoneticsem said:

My translation as per pleco vocabulary:

Everything can not only be seen on the surface, otherwise can cause some one to make error in judgement, still possibly lead to misunderstanding.

Forget for a moment that you know anything about Chinese, or that there was a Chinese sentence that this was translated from, and try reading this sentence just as it is in English.

 

It's a clumsy sentence that doesn't make sense and no native speaker would ever write or say such a thing in normal usage.  When translating, it's not enough only to consider whether you have captured the meaning of the source material, you also need to render in the target language in a way that makes sense and sounds natural.

 

Sometimes this comes at a cost of leaving off words that appeared in the source material, or adding words that didn't exist in the source material, but it will leave you with a better translation.

[Moshen]

Maybe you need to review the function of measure words in Chinese.

 

In 一本书, 本 is a measure word plain and simple.  It has no connotations of "originally," which it might in another context.

Similarly, in 一家火锅店, 家 is a measure word plain and simple and you shouldn't think about its other meaning of "family" there.

[phoneticsem]

At this moment, I am translating to get “grammatical intuition, and overall comprehension” so just translating as it is at this stage. Just comparing whether I am getting the author’s view correctly.

 

Will read more to identify 量词 liàngcí and use it.

 

 

[phoneticsem]

On 7/4/2022 at 3:15 PM, imron said:

家 in this context is simply the measure word for restaurant and does not convey any meaning as to whether or not this is a family restaurant.

 

noted.

[Jim]

On 7/4/2022 at 12:18 AM, phoneticsem said:

soon afterwards

Your literalism has failed you here too and made your translation inferior to Google's, which parses the sentence correctly as having a clause setting up the time that is then linked with 便 and when rendered in English does come more naturally at the end.

[phoneticsem]

Good to know the word literalism. I changed the meaning of 便 to then. I missed 判断 to translate. Have added it now. 

 

我和太太日前到一家自助火锅店用餐时,便目睹了因错误判断而引起的误会。

 

Fewdays ago myself and wife went to a self serving hot pot restaurant to eat a meal, then saw with my own eyes a mistake in judgement causing the misunderstanding 

[Moshen]

Quote

grammatical intuition

 

"Grammatical intuition" does not come from word by word analysis.  It comes from tons of simply listening and/or reading.

 

The Pimsleur method and probably other methods develop "grammatical intuition" by careful repetition and variation. They never, or almost never, provide an explanation or analysis of their materials, but students pick it up intuitively as they get to harder and harder stuff.  For a European language I was able to pick up the proper use of subjunctive and other fine points without ever studying conjugations or analyzing word use as you are trying to do, just by loads of listening and reading, plus a general awareness of there being such a thing as subjunctive mood.  That is "grammatical intuition."

 

The word "intuition" doesn't belong anywhere near what you are doing, which is an opposite approach.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2022 at 08:14 AM by Moshen
Wrongly used the word "intensive" in the first paragraph.

[Zeppa]

Apart from anything else, I love the idea of a "self-serving hotpot restaurant", because "self-serving" means behaving selfishly in your own interests. I know this has been corrected to "self-service", it just struck me how funny it is.

[phoneticsem]

On 7/5/2022 at 4:10 PM, Moshen said:

It comes from intensive listening and/or intensive reading.

 

“Intensive reading involves learners reading in detail with specific learning aims and tasks. It can be compared with extensive reading, which involves learners reading texts for enjoyment and to develop general reading skills.”

 

we should get details while reading, else it might become extensive reading

 

 

[phoneticsem]

On 7/5/2022 at 10:06 PM, Zeppa said:

because "self-serving" means behaving selfishly in your own interests.

 

Spot on. I think restaurants serve their own interests as well ? Noun and verbs mostly have same words.

 

我和太太日前到一家自助火锅店用餐时,便目睹了因错误判断而引起的误会。

 

Fewdays ago myself and wife went to a self-service hot pot restaurant to eat a meal, then saw with my own eyes a mistake in judgement causing the misunderstanding 

[Moshen]

On 7/5/2022 at 4:10 AM, Moshen said:

It comes from intensive listening and/or intensive reading.

 

Quote

“Intensive reading involves learners reading in detail with specific learning aims and tasks. It can be compared with extensive reading, which involves learners reading texts for enjoyment and to develop general reading skills.”

 

Sorry, I was confused there, using "intensive" in its ordinary meaning.  Using the linguistic meaning, I should have said "extensive reading" there.

[phoneticsem]

当时,坐在我不远处的两名男子享用完一桌子食物后,双双离开位子。

 

At that time, not far from where i was sitting two male were enjoying a food on a table, after meal, both left the seats

 

Google Translator: 

At that time, two men sitting in my not far apart, after a table food, doubled the position.

 

here google used after a table food..can we translate it to table food in the above sentence?

 

[Jim]

It's a measure word for a whole table spread with various dishes, and combined with the use 享用 as the verb to eat suggests "tucking into a hearty repast" type of eating big style rather than just having a burger or bowl of noodles.