Chinese style vegetable gardening

[abcdefg]

Since I bailed out of the Chinese Mainland at the beginning of the pandemic and returned to my US home, which is NE Texas, one of the new hobbies I've taken up is organic vegetable gardening. One of my goals was to be able to develop the skill to grow some of the delicious fresh produce that I learned to love while living there, bought fresh and cheap from my neighborhood wet market 菜市场。Lots of these veggies, considered staples in Kunming, are rare exotics or nonexistent here in the U.S. 

 

莴笋 is one fine example. Love to cook it. Love to eat it.  

      

 

概览 is another. I've found these in a few restaurants in Dallas Chinatown, but not in the small town where I live. 

 

Have been enjoying the detailed and intelligent YouTube gardening channel of a Chinese Grandma who seems to be a master of organic gardening.  Speaks very clearly. Lao Cai, 老蔡田园、

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezcz6ByhnOA 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRxyN_fyFII 

 

Already I've had to acquire a good deal of new vocabulary, and that's a valuable side benefit of studying a new subject in Chinese. Language expansion comes naturally. 

[MTH123]

On 7/14/2022 at 5:21 AM, abcdefg said:

Have been enjoying the detailed and intelligent YouTube gardening channel of a Chinese Grandma who seems to be a master of organic gardening.  Speaks very clearly. Lao Cai, 老蔡田园、

 

Post-COVID, the Asian grocery near me doesn’t always have Chinese Chives, aka Garlic Chives. So, it’s been in the back of my mind to try to grow it again. It’s supposedly easy to grow, but it wasn’t for a brown-thumbed person like me. When I tried over a decade ago, it was a miserable failure. Maybe with a good video, I can see, learn, and have some chance of success.

 

Lao Cai’s Garden has many videos on Chinese Chives. Some of the videos have English subtitles, and some don’t. In the case of Chinese Chives, they don’t. But, they do have soft-embedded Chinese subtitles that are convenient for me to download and translate electronically. I’ve translated the video, “How to grow Chives from seeds / Mars Hydros” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M8OrgMNGTs&list=PLJu-RcJCVJWCCjP7z9BpkNyxQ3SRvMlSZ&index=3). The English subtitle file is attached, if anyone else is interested.

 

My favorite way to cook Chinese Chives is in dumplings. I have my mom’s great pot-sticker recipe, which I may write up and post someday. I’ve never seen it in a restaurant, even in Asia. Boiled dumplings with Chinese Chives are everywhere in Taipei. They’re great too, but I don’t have a recipe for it… yet…

如何用種子種韭菜，種一次吃多年 How to grow Chives from seeds _ Mars Hydros.srt

[MTH123]

Lao Cai’s Garden has many videos on Goji Berries, aka Wolfberries. If I didn’t have a brown thumb, I’d be very interested in trying to grow them. Goji berries are “super nutrients.” There aren’t all that many of those. Goji berries are cheap in Taiwan, but really expensive in the U. S. I just assumed the difference was because of the tropical-type climate in Taiwan without putting any real thought into it. But, if Ms. Cai can grow them in Toronto, then they can be grown in the U. S. too. (I’m assuming she’s growing everything in Toronto.)

 

[abcdefg]

On 7/14/2022 at 3:20 PM, MTH123 said:

Lao Cai’s Garden has many videos on Goji Berries, aka Wolfberries.

In mainland China the most prized ones are from Ningxia. I visited several goji 枸杞 farms or plantations there one year the way one might tour wineries in Napa or Sonoma. Each had a special approach or slant on how to grow the best ones.

 

We walked into the fields where they were grown on low bushes, between knee and waist high. The soil was sandy and the climate was dry. Some farms grew taller ones that were trellised like grapes. Some actually made wine from them as well as the usual hot "tea" or infusion. Some had methods for brewing the leaves of the plants. (Not very tasty, in my opinion.)

 

They all had tasting rooms and a staff member assigned to give visitors an explanatory sales pitch. One could buy different grades, ranging from "trophy sized" beauties nearly the size of a grape, to smaller irregular "seconds." They offered all of them in heat-sealed foil pouches that each had only an ounce or so of the dried berries, making it easy to open and use them without a large jar or tin of them going bad. 

 

In Yinchuan 银川 the capital city, it was interesting to see that the common people 老百姓 consumed lots of them. I remember that taxi drivers often had a jar with a lid that was a third full of 枸杞 berries, water on top, that they sipped in lieu of tea. 

 

I wound up buying lots of them and gifting all my Kunming friends. Customs regulations prevented shipping them to the US, so my family missed out. 

[Luxi]

Goji berries became quite popular here years ago, they were supposed to be easy to grow. Not in my garden, they were a ? failure. I may be luckier with Chinese chives

HERB GARLIC / CHINESE CHIVES 1500 FINEST SEEDS : Amazon.co.uk: Garden & Outdoors

 

Is there anything Amazon doesn't sell???

 

[MTH123]

On 7/15/2022 at 7:44 AM, Luxi said:

Amazon

 

Amazon is a great idea! It'll save me from potentially having to hunt through many Asian grocery stores. With Amazon, I can also choose one that has high customer ratings. Then, if I fail again, I can be pretty sure it's me again and not the seeds.

 

[abcdefg]

韭菜 sounds doable. 枸杞 not so much. 

 

@MTH123 -- Am I right in assuming that 韭菜 is what you mean by "Chinese Chives?" I always stumble on the English names of Chinese vegetables. 

 

I grow spring onions 葱 from their roots. Buy them in the supermarket, use the green tops in cooking, then root the white bottom parts in water. Transplant into potting soil in a week or 2 when there are white rootlets. Easy to do. Many online videos about it. Once or twice have done the same with shallots. 

 

Would be tempted to try the same method for propagating jiucai 韭菜 from the roots of existing plants. 

 

Garlic 大蒜 is a whole different ballgame. Requires a different approach. Here in the west, I would go for "Elephant garlic." Larger and milder. I've grown it in years past (different climate; not where I live now.) 

 

The long green tops of garlic, 蒜苔 suantai, were very popular in Kunming. "Garlic scapes." Not sure I've ever seen them here in Texas. Should not be difficult to grow. Distinctive and excellent, full flavor. They are crunchy and have a little bite. 

 

 

 

 

 

[MTH123]

@abcdefg Yes, it's 韭菜. I actually think of it as jiu cai. Chinese Chives does sound a little funny to me too. This is a good example where I should find a way to cut-and-paste Chinese.

 

Actually, the one time I tried to grow Chinese Chives (韭菜), it wasn’t from seeds. It was from grown plants, including their roots. A couple that owned a great Chinese restaurant was retiring to Florida. They surprised me with a bucket full of Chinese Chives and their roots. They explained how to transplant them and grow them. It sure did sound easy. But, I messed it up somehow.

 

If you can get ahold of Chinese Chives with their roots, Lao Cai’s Garden has a video about transplanting them. The link is below. I plan to watch it carefully too.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKouCvOuk7k&list=PLJu-RcJCVJWCCjP7z9BpkNyxQ3SRvMlSZ&index=29

 

Your post hit on many things I’m interested in. I go through a lot of spring onions and garlic. Post-COVID, my local grocery has had odd looking spring onions. I’m not even picky, so that’s saying something. Garlic sometimes doesn’t look quite right either. So, I will definitely be saving a link to your post. You’re making me want to start my gardening project a lot earlier than I had planned. I do mostly have my arms around my new-ish Chinese projects and could probably set them down for a while without losing too much efficiency.

 

I’m pretty sure that part of my problem with my brown thumb is the fundamental concept of watering. Do you know of a good resource for this, like Watering for Dummies or Idiot’s Guide to Watering?

 

[MTH123]

On 7/15/2022 at 9:43 AM, abcdefg said:

The long green tops of garlic, 蒜苔 were very popular in Kunming. "Garlic scapes." Not sure I've ever seen them here in Texas. Should not be difficult to grow. Distinctive and excellent, full flavor. They have a little bite. 

 

Those look great! I think I'll try to grow it one day, just to see what it tastes like. It seems like even I might be able to do it.

 

This reminds me of what I mentioned in the other thread. Americans throw away so much great stuff, like yam leaves, carrot leaves, beef tendons, etc. I tried getting beef tendons from a butcher once for a cow that my friends and I had bought. But, I just got a blank stare, followed by a response like, "we don't do that here."

 

[abcdefg]

On 7/15/2022 at 11:33 AM, MTH123 said:

This reminds me of what I mentioned in the other thread. Americans throw away so much great stuff, like yam leaves, carrot leaves, beef tendons, etc.

 

I grow sweet potatoes and routinely stir fry the tender young leaves. Very tasty sliced thin and quickly fried up with tofu and appropriate seasonings. That and steamed rice 米饭 makes me a simple meal.  Sometimes I add a few mushrooms. Sometimes a hot pepper. 

[Baihande]

 

On 7/14/2022 at 12:21 PM, abcdefg said:

莴笋

Like the picture showing the 莴笋 you've grown. Not surprisingly, it looks much fresher than all the specimens I encountered in China, even on a farmers market in Yangshuo, Guilin. By the way, how do you prepare the leaves? In German, the European variants of Latuca sativa generally simply are called "Salat", called after the dish that is prepared from it. I guess most Germans don't even know it's a Lattich (lettuce).

[abcdefg]

On 7/24/2022 at 6:49 AM, Baihande said:

By the way, how do you prepare the leaves?

 

The most common way that I do it is to cut the leaves into small pieces, wash them and set aside in a bowl. Prep the stalks by peeling away the thick fibrous surface, then slice them into small matchstick pieces ("julienne") 2 or 3 inches long. Stir-fry these about half way, then add the leaves to the same wok. The leaves require less cooking time, so everything finishes together at about the same time. Add seasonings and sauces as required by your recipe. 

 

Here's another way to cook it that I posted a long time ago (2017.) It includes red bell pepper and tofu. It's a very pleasant combination. 

 

https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/54904-chinese-stem-lettuce-莴笋炒豆腐/#comment-423525 

[ericajohnson3422]

I just explore this side of the forum and I'm glad that I'm a part of this wonderful forum to explore more about home gardening.

[MTH123]

I have a terribly brown thumb. I kill things that are hard to kill. I thought I should start small and as simply as possible. So, I bought a highly popular book from Amazon. It’s Container Gardening for Beginners by Tammy Wylie. I’ve already thumbed through the book. I can already see why it’s so popular.

 

One comment on Amazon said that the book has helpful information that isn’t readily found on websites. Since I don’t know what I’m doing, sifting through a bunch of websites isn’t for me. I prefer buying a good book that saves me a lot of confusion, failed attempts and frustration. To me, the book is well worth the $13 price.

 

Now I know the major reason why I failed to grow Chinese Chives (韭菜; jiu cai). I took soil from the ground and put it in a container. Actually, I was able to successfully get one harvest! Or, maybe it was two? But, I ended up killing the Chinese Chives.

 

Please pardon the simpleton explanation I’m about to make, because I can only explain it in simpleton terms. The main problem had to have been “fertilizer.” Soil in the ground automatically maintains “fertilizer.” Soil in a container uses up the “fertilizer” in the soil. It doesn’t automatically get replenished, like it does when it’s in the ground. I needed to add fertilizer to the container to continue getting harvests and to not kill the Chinese Chives.

 

This gives me optimism that I can indeed grow Chinese Chives! By the way, Chinese Chives are “perennials.” They can be harvested multiple times a year. They can also be grown indoors. I’m very excited!

 

[abcdefg]

On 8/17/2022 at 4:28 PM, MTH123 said:

The main problem had to have been “fertilizer.”

Not just that. Container gardening requires different soil from a "garden in the ground." Containers also have different watering requirements from a garden bed dug into the ground. 

[MTH123]

On 8/17/2022 at 4:42 PM, abcdefg said:

Not just that. Container gardening requires different soil from a "garden in the ground." Containers also have different watering requirements from a garden bed dug into the ground.

 

Great point! I lucked out when I just put soil from the ground into a randomly-selected container and transplanted Chinese Chives into it. I put the container outdoors and just let rain water the Chinese Chives. I guess this speaks to how easy Chinese Chives are to grow. They kind of look like and remind me of tall grass, which is a weed that grows easily.

 

Going forward, I'm going to follow the book for everything. So, I'm going to use store-bought soil for container gardening, the right type-and-size of container, watering techniques for containers, maybe a tool for checking moistness in the soil, etc. Again, it's all very exciting!

 

[abcdefg]

Good luck! 

[Baihande]

Last year I bought a pair of Sichuan pepper shrubs, curious how they would thrive in Upper Bavaria at an altitude of 530 m. in the same year I was even able to harvest some grains, delicious, not at all soapy (the first time I ate Sichuan pepper it was of a somewhat soapy variety). Happily, both shrubs survived the winter, be it that they are naturally resilient, be it that the last two winters have been exceptionally mild with almost days/nights with a temperature far below zero. On of them is now more than 2 m, and both of them have been pollinated. Looking forward to harvesting in October.

[abcdefg]

On 7/6/2023 at 10:39 AM, Baihande said:

Last year I bought a pair of Sichuan pepper shrubs

 

Interesting! Well done! These look like 花椒, huajiao, so-called Sichuan prickly-ash peppercorns, not from the same family as true peppers 辣椒。 One of the good things about having a supply of these fresh is that it opens the possibility of using some of them before they have been dried, while they are still green. They are seldom, if ever, available in that form in the US. Probably not in Germany either. 

 

In Chengdu, as well as in Kunming, small branches of green ones are sometimes used in cooking fish. In Kunming, you could buy branches of them that had been harvested and refrigerated or even plastic-wrapped and flash-frozen. The ones I saw most were actually sprigs, not large branches, maybe 4 to 6 inches long. 

 

First time I had them in a restaurant (in Chengdu) I was truly afraid because the dish had two or three clusters of these huajiao, and each one had  20 or 30 individual peppercorns. But it wasn't as spicy as I had feared. (As you know, you don't actually eat the peppercorns. They just season the dish as it cooks.) 

 

https://foragerchef.com/wild-szechuan-peppercorns/  

[Baihande]

After an exceptionally warm and fine summer we already harvested our huajiao on the last day of September. Besides being much more tasty than the spice from a shop, the crop each year is more abundant. Can only recommend to plant your own shrubs.