Chinese study group for people >60 years old

[Bernd]

Good morning,

 

I would like to set up a Chinese study for people over the age of 60 (I am 69) with a CECRL (European Framework of Reference for Languages) level B1 or higher.

 

The purpose of the group would be to

- compare experiences

- develop study strategies

- exchange materials (PDFs, MP3s, apps, etc.)

 

 

[Moshen]

Hi Bernd,

I understand the probable rationale for restricting the proficiency level of people in your group, but why would you want to restrict the group by age?

Here on Chinese Forums I don't know the age of most other regular members, and I learn great study strategies from the comments of all. So I am wondering what background assumptions you have about age-related learning.

[TheBigZaboon]

I'd also chime in to ask you to explain the level you require for those of us who don't know what level you're talking about when you say CECRL B1. How about explaining it in terms of what one is expected to be able to do or say/read if one is to be considered to be at the  B1 level.

 

Also, you may surprise yourself at the level someone over 60 may be considered to have achieved. Raw experience and a working/living career might provide a level that pure academics would envy (regardless of age).

 

In any case, I don't have a lot of time to participate but I would be interested in following along, and making contributions when I can. And my experience working alongside Deng Xiao Ping in that Renault factory in France would probably put me in the right age bracket.

 

Just sayin'...

 

TBZ

[Bernd]

Moshen,

 

Thank you for your comment. The reason for restricting the group by age is that after the age of 60, learning abilities decline rapidly. In particular, learning thousands of new words is a huge challenge. Compared to what I could achieve when I was in my 20s or 30s, my long-term memory now works at best at 50%, and probably at 30%. It is difficult to address these problems with younger people, who fortunately do not have this problem.

In contrast, people after age 60 or older are often retired and could compensate for the memory decline by doubling or tripling their study hours, for example, 30 hours a week. Younger people may not have as much time available.

So, yes, I imagine that people in their 60s have problems and solutions particular to their age group. Hence my idea to create this group.

All the best,
Bernd

[Bernd]

Dear TheBigZaboon,

Working alongside Deng Xiao Ping in the Renault factory in Boulogne Billancourt in November 1925? In fact, you are well over 60…

The CEFRL or CEFRL is a classification used to describe achievements of learners of foreign languages across Europe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languages).

In my post I wrote "people over the age of 60, level B1 or higher." Perhaps I should have been more restrictive, asking for "Level C1 or C2." In fact, I would like to meet people my age who are committed to a *complete understanding* of the Chinese language. By complete understanding, I mean

1.     understanding every single word of a TV drama (i.e. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78mYf5M9IGU) or TV news program

2.     “as if it were your native language”.

I know complete understanding is possible because I reached this level of understanding in French when I was a teenager and in Italian when I was in my twenties. Now I would like to get there in Chinese as well, but I feel I need the help of our people.

[Moshen]

Quote

learning abilities decline rapidly. In particular, learning thousands of new words is a huge challenge.

 

Well, I am over 60 and I wouldn't join a group founded in this attitude.  First, my learning ability is chugging along very nicely, pleasantly and satisfactorily.  Second and probably more important, I have no interest in cramming to learn "thousands of new words"!

 

Even when I was young and learning languages to the point where I could do daily business in three of them and read one more without speaking it, I never focused on trying to acquire more and more words.  Rather, my interest was to be able to use the language and gradually get better at it.  I tackled Chinese in my thirties and have never crammed, never counted up my vocabulary.

 

So you really have three requirements for your group.  It sounds like people who have a relaxed attitude toward learning and who believe themselves perfectly capable of learning would not fit in.  No problem there - people should create or find the learning setting where they feel most comfortable.

[abcdefg]

On 1/30/2023 at 4:25 AM, TheBigZaboon said:

And my experience working alongside Deng Xiao Ping in that Renault factory in France would probably put me in the right age bracket.

 

TBZ -- Yep, I'd say that would easily qualify you for membership in this elite club! (I can't help asking, did you get to know the great man during that time? Anecdotes welcome. I admire DXP.) 

 

@Moshen -- "Rather, my interest was to be able to use the language and gradually get better at it."

 

Same here. I am not at all interested in a quest for perfection. I have no claim to "understanding every single word" in Chinese. I cannot even claim that in my native language.

 

@Bernd-- "In fact, I would like to meet people my age who are committed to a *complete understanding* of the Chinese language."

 

Count me out for this project, even though I meet the age requirements. The goal you are pursuing is not one I find appealing.  

[Flickserve]

On 1/30/2023 at 8:27 PM, Bernd said:

So, yes, I imagine that people in their 60s have problems and solutions particular to their age group. Hence my idea to create this group.

I am out of this by a decade but I do believe sharing amongst a similar age cohort can provide a degree of understanding and camaraderie. 
 

After all, for many sports, you would find it difficult to train with younger people and that can lead to be being discouraged. I would expect some people feel similarly with language.

 

However I would probably widen your range rather more flexibly. Just saying 60 years old and above sounds too rigid and ageist. 

[TheBigZaboon]

There are conditions and goals now mentioned that I wasn't aware of in the beginning. As I'm not restricted by them, and don't feel they meet my needs, I think it's probably okay to stick around for the ride. But I never ever attempt to learn vocabulary simply to add to a nebulous and elusive total of words "known" or acquired, so I'll stay out of discussions of that sort. But maybe I can contribute some ideas or introduce resources that have targeted a subject or an area for me, and thus just might help someone else in setting or achieving more attainable goals...

 

Anyway, even if you don't want me, it seems I'm yours...

 

TBZ

[Bernd]

Thank you for your comment, Flickserve. You're right that the 60-year limit might be too restrictive. How about a group of people who are 50 and older?

I also liked your  “but I do believe sharing amongst a similar age cohort can provide a degree of understanding and camaraderie. After all, for many sports, you would find it difficult to train with younger people and that can lead to be being discouraged. I would expect some people feel similarly with language.” You found just the right words that I didn't find.

[Bernd]

Hello TheBigZaboon, thank you for your offering some of your resources. Please let me explain some more details of the ‘Chinese for 50+’ project (see the message above for 50+ instead of 60+).

 

As a first step, we could define DIFFERENT LEVELS of CHINESE that people would like to achieve, and then collect/create materials that can be used to achieve a specific level.

 

Personally, I am currently interested in understanding

1. drama series + films

2. TV news + documentaries

The reason for this approach is that once I am able to understand TV series or news, this would open up almost unlimited resources for daily exposure to the Chinese language.

 

So far, I've prepared 10 drama episodes for listening, reading, and vocabulary retrieval (see the first episode at https://hiv.net/advanced-chinese; there you'll find four columns for Chinese, Pinyin, English, and new words). As you can see, no one wants to add vocabulary to a ‘nebulous and elusive sum of "known" or acquired words’; instead, all words are presented in context, as they should be.

 

I understand from your message that you have access to interesting resources. Can they help achieve the goal mentioned above? If not, do you have valuable resources for other levels of (self-taught) learning? Also, how do you think other easily achievable levels should be defined?

 

I'm eager to hear your ideas.

 

P.S. I would propose that all materials produced or compiled by the "Chinese 50+ Group" should be made freely available to everyone.

 

 

 

[abcdefg]

Just for fun I watched episode one. Found it challenging, especially the parts in the delivery room when the staff was excited, talking fast and wearing surgical masks. 

 

Episode 1/36 of the Chinese drama 亲爱的生命 (Qīn’ài de shēngmìn - Beloved Life). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78mYf5M9IGU&t=769s 

[Bernd]

abcdefg

>>>Found it challenging, especially the parts in the delivery room when the staff was excited, talking fast and wearing surgical masks. 

 

Challenging indeed. I remember the sentence at 4'20'' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78mYf5M9IGU&t=260s). 32 syllables in 4 seconds...

 

From this episode I "extracted" about 700 words I didn't know. Did you know them all? Or almost all?

[abcdefg]

On 2/4/2023 at 12:38 PM, Bernd said:

Did you know them all? Or almost all?

 

No. Far from it. I watched the entire episode and there were lots of words I didn't know. Ironically, I knew very little of the OB/GYN technical vocabulary even though I have a medical background. 

 

I found your vocabulary notes helpful. Thanks! 

 

Also, I find it more difficult to understand people who are talking while wearing masks. Odd, because I'm not aware of trying to read lips and my hearing is more or less OK. I listen to news broadcasts and podcasts without undue problems. But, even in real life, face to face, when people wearing masks talk, I understand less than I would ordinarily unless I concentrate real hard. Have been aware of it since the start of Covid. 

[Bernd]

abcdefg

 

>>> even though I have a medical background. 

 

I also have a medical background, infectious diseases. That's why I worked on "Beloving Life". Of course, OB/GYN is a far cry from ID. Only at the end of the drama, in the last 3 or 4 episodes, the plot suddenly revolves around the beginning of the Covid epidemic.

 

 

[abcdefg]

On 2/6/2023 at 10:08 AM, Bernd said:

Only at the end of the drama, in the last 3 or 4 episodes, the plot suddenly revolves around the beginning of the Covid epidemic.

 

I didn't get that far. But maybe I will skip forward because I would like to watch something that lets me improve my grasp of Covid lingo. I lived in China about 12 years. First intermittently, then all the time. Left at the start of Covid.

 

Didn't practice medicine in China, though I did teach for a while part-time at one of the medical schools. Am retired. Did Emergency Medicine most of my career, even though I was residency trained in Internal Medicine and did it first for several years.

 

Had a great time in China. Love the language, the people, the culture, the food, etc. (Not too fond of the government.) 

 

 

[Flickserve]

On 2/2/2023 at 7:28 PM, Bernd said:

So far, I've prepared 10 drama episodes for listening, reading, and vocabulary retrieval (see the first episode at https://hiv.net/advanced-chinese; there you'll find four columns for Chinese, Pinyin, English, and new words). As you can see, no one wants to add vocabulary to a ‘nebulous and elusive sum of "known" or acquired words’; instead, all words are presented in context, as they should be.

You did this yourself? That’s very impressive. 
 

I shall try to watch a few episodes. I am not a great TV  person at all, especially in a language I don’t understand.