You know, I kind of miss Pandemic China.

[vellocet]

It's been a pain in the ass these last three years.  No going home, no Christmas surrounded by the people you love back home, no more loading the suitcase up with your culture's special foods (ouch).  Dealing with a lot of extra bullshit, like finding a testing center near you that's open, keeping your jiankangma up to date, getting denied entry into shopping centers because you had something come up and forgot to get tested.  Or, what hurt me the most, your relatives not able to make an annual visit and hang out.  

 

Remember the early days?  When foreigners were straight up freaking out?  The general feeling was "I've got to get out of here! I'm going to die in China!"  LOL.  Anyone remember Flora, that lady in Wuhan?  Classic.  Remember when the US State Department sent a plane to evacuate its consular staff from Wuhan, and then was going to fly back half empty?  And after an outcry, they reluctantly agreed to allow US citizens to board...at $2,000 a seat?  Good times, good times.  While countries like Russia and the Philippines sent planes for their people at no charge.  You know, because they think they should care for their own citizens, unlike the US State Department which thinks we're all (non-Amcham that is) either criminals on the run from the law or tax evaders.  

 

But I'll not lie, it was kind of nice having China all to ourselves for a while.  Nobody came in.  There was a trickle, but a 28 day hotel stay at your own expense was a significant barrier to entry.  

 

I've been told that China has lost a lot of long-term foreigners and I should be upset about that.  I don't quite understand.  Why?  My attitude has always been: you don't like it, get the heck out.  For some reason this is really bad and people react very poorly to it.  We recently had a long-termer (14 years) leave.  There was some foofaraw with his school, and instead of looking for another job he just decided to exit.  This was fine by me!  He was the biggest complainer ever.  Every time I met him, he wanted to pull me aside and explain how something had happened, that the Chinese were so stupid, and how he missed the good old days when he used to live in Taiwan.  After a while I just couldn't listen to it any more and told him off to his face, just don't give me that negative crap any more!  It brings me down, which I'm pretty sure was the intention.  I have a great time in China, how dare I enjoy it while he hates it!  Well, when it was time for him to go he was all broken up about it.  I didn't get it, I thought you despise China and despise worse Chinese people?  He didn't speak Mandarin, of course. How can you be sad about leaving a country and people that you detest, and your favorite topic of conversation is this fact?

 

I saw this pattern repeated over and over online. It might be phrased as, "I'm leaving and you should be very dismayed and try to stop me - but I won't be stopped, you can't un-break a vase, and this is a really bad move on your part which will turn out badly for you."

 

With our reduced numbers, I'm glad that the issue of foreigners can go on the back burner for a while.  We were really attracting attention from the government, and now we're a lot fewer.  Hopefully it will take a long time for our numbers to return to what they were, if they ever do.  I was expecting a new crop of foreigners when the restrictions were relaxed in January and I haven't noticed a single one.  The tourist visas will open in a few days and that will be the real test.  Well, if those were planning on moving back to China and living full-time, they've got a big surprise coming.  All the training centers are closed and that was a major source of work for them.  Now, it's only public schools and they are regularly inspected for illegals.  

 

I hope we can go back to the good old days, when foreigners were rare and unusual.  I don't say this because I have the "I'm the only laowai in China" disease, but because the foreign trash is all gone. It's also nice having a bit of leverage.  Now, either they pay up or lose out.  Nice to see the shoe is on the other foot for once.

I've said this before in a Wechat group and got quite a number of upset responses. Evidently a lot of people like the foreign trash? Someone else put this way, "The way I understood it meant he that the inconvenience of the last three years got rid of all the people that come to China to fuck around because it’s easy to get some training centre job which requires minimum effort other than being a foreigner & spend all of their time getting drunk, sleeping around and giving china a bad impression of foreigners."  Amen to that.

[Johnny-5]

On 3/21/2023 at 2:58 PM, vellocet said:

I didn't get it, I thought you despise China and despise worse Chinese people?

Somehow the most leftist/liberal/"anti-racist" people I know are just delighted to say all sorts of hateful stuff about China and Chinese people (just look at r/China on reddit) the non-political people just don't get into it... then you go all the way to the GOP side of the equation... and I gotta be honest I don't  know many of these people, but they do a lot of hating on China too, but I don't get the feeling they hate on Chinese people (we're talking in the American context, your country may vary  )

On 3/21/2023 at 2:58 PM, vellocet said:

Remember when the US State Department sent a plane to evacuate its consular staff from Wuhan, and then was going to fly back half empty?  And after an outcry, they reluctantly agreed to allow US citizens to board...at $2,000 a seat?  Good times, good times.  While countries like Russia and the Philippines sent planes for their people at no charge.  You know, because they think they should care for their own citizens

I actually missed that initial fun cuz we took a trip abroad for Chinese new year, and just barely made it back in under the buzzer.

But I share with you the derision for the US government. They treat the US as a shopping mall, and Americans like economic units not citizens.

 

On 3/21/2023 at 2:58 PM, vellocet said:

I saw this pattern repeated over and over online. It might be phrased as, "I'm leaving and you should be very dismayed and try to stop me - but I won't be stopped, you can't un-break a vase, and this is a really bad move on your part which will turn out badly for you."

Kinda got this same feeling when I see people on Youtube who have become diehard anti-China shills like that SerpentZA guy... If it's really so bad then good for you for leaving, but why should I care?

 

On 3/21/2023 at 2:58 PM, vellocet said:

I was expecting a new crop of foreigners when the restrictions were relaxed in January and I haven't noticed a single one. 

Know a guy who left before COVID (he didn't have a degree and it was getting hard to get a job) and he's finally finding his way back in for the fall semester.

 

On 3/21/2023 at 2:58 PM, vellocet said:

I hope we can go back to the good old days, when foreigners were rare and unusual.

Not sure what time period you're referring to, but the current geo-political situation might make your wish come true.

I think before covid the number of Chinese learners in university was at an all time high, but over the last three years it has dropped off a cliff and something  like only 60,000 people are enrolled in Chinese programs in American universities. As we all can guess that 60,000 people will be half overseas Chinese and then of tthe 30,000 only a small portion will ever decide to spend time in China and/or become proficient in Chinese.

Just pulling numbers out of my butt, but I'd be surprised if any more than 300 of the 30,000 non-Chinese students actually ever achieves proficiency, the real number may be closer to 30...

[Jim]

I came through personally unscathed as I work from home and our villages (we moved about a kilometre to the next one last year after our lease ran out) only had the one full lockdown but the schooling breaks were bad for the kids. Not so good for the wife either, who is a market trader and obviously that wasn't happening, so she was bored and it put a dint in the family income. I was in Beijing during SARS way back and similarly sailed through that while there was a bit of a panic on and foreigners passing through having pulled out of provincial jobs.

Hard to say anything about the affect on numbers, it's gone up exponentially here as another European bloke has moved into the next village but only heard about it from neighbours, never seen him about. There's an Italian and a Gambian in the township too, but they've been here ages too, though I may have missed some non visible foreigners.

[Jan Finster]

On 3/21/2023 at 7:58 AM, vellocet said:

 

I hope we can go back to the good old days, when foreigners were rare and unusual.

How about moving to a 2nd or 3rd tier city then?

[vellocet]

On 3/22/2023 at 3:20 AM, Jan Finster said:

How about moving to a 2nd or 3rd tier city then?

Way ahead of you, been in one since I got here. I didn't know foreigners were ever unusual in Beijing. 

[Jan Finster]

On 3/22/2023 at 3:56 PM, vellocet said:

Way ahead of you, been in one since I got here

Well, then how about a rural village? ?

[PerpetualChange]

I was prepared to say something smug about this topic in response but, after thinking about it more, I get it. When I was in HK, I couldn't stand being around other Laowai for too long when they were your typical party/sleep around crew who put 0 effort into learning anything about the culture or language. Unfortunately this was 90% of other Laowai I met. 

 

China/The Chinese enable it, too. When you're in China, you're always "honored guest", and never really expected to integrate or be treated like everyone else. Some people struggle against that, but lots of people (most?) have no problem reveling in it. 

[Jan Finster]

On 3/27/2023 at 6:39 PM, PerpetualChange said:

I get it. When I was in HK, I couldn't stand being around other Laowai for too long when they were your typical party/sleep around crew who put 0 effort into learning anything about the culture or language. Unfortunately this was 90% of other Laowai I met. 

 

I also get it. I was in Bangkok in December 2020 and it was paradise. There were maybe 5% of the tourists compared to pre-COVID. People told me it was like 1970 when Thailand was not yet that popular. Been there again 2022 and it is overcrowded with rude tourists that look for cheap party and a free pass for all sorts of behaviour. Hurts me, because Thai people are genuinely friendly.

[Jim]

In my line of work the other ten percent beyond the wasters tend to be frightening bright go-get-'em Ivy league types who make you feel inadequate for bimbling along in your little rut, so I can happily live without them too

[carlo]

I've been hearing this since I started going to China in the late 90s. There were less foreigners around then. I'd meet folks who'd arrived in the early 80s, who'd in turn also complain the quality had gone down ever since (bet Marco Polo thought the same of them). Yes, some I met in Beijing at the time would make me embarassed to be seen as part of the category.

 

However as numbers increased, I kind of enjoyed disappearing into the background. Being a foreigner became less rare, the category more loose, the anomalies more frequent (a friend who had been brought up in China, locals with foreign passports, mixed marriages, people learning each other's languages etc). I'd take that over Twilight in the Hermit Kingdom any day.

 

My 2c is to be careful what we wish for. These last few years have been awful for cross border friendships, families and cross cultural encounters in general. A few jerks here and there are a cheap price to pay for more person-to-person relationships and first-hand knowledge of other cultures.

[Johnny-5]

On 3/28/2023 at 3:31 AM, Jan Finster said:

People told me it was like 1970 when Thailand was not yet that popular.

Around 1970 it was a popular destination for another kind of tourist... You know, the kind that brought jets and nuclear weapons with them 

[Johnny-5]

On 3/22/2023 at 10:56 PM, vellocet said:

Way ahead of you, been in one since I got here. I didn't know foreigners were ever unusual in Beijing. 

I first went to Beijing in 2006 after living in a 2nd tier city, and so I was really surprised at how people didn't even give me a 2nd look in Beijing.

[PerpetualChange]

On 3/28/2023 at 3:01 AM, carlo said:

My 2c is to be careful what we wish for. These last few years have been awful for cross border friendships, families and cross cultural encounters in general. A few jerks here and there are a cheap price to pay for more person-to-person relationships and first-hand knowledge of other cultures.

This is an excellent point, and underrated. 

 

Yes, with improved relations comes more tourism, more annoyances for expats to deal with and be associated with while trying to carve some kind of life in China. 

 

But, no doubt in my mind, the last few years have been awful for US/Chinese relationships, in general. 

[sekkar]

On 3/28/2023 at 3:01 PM, carlo said:

My 2c is to be careful what we wish for. These last few years have been awful for cross border friendships, families and cross cultural encounters in general. A few jerks here and there are a cheap price to pay for more person-to-person relationships and first-hand knowledge of other cultures.

 

100%.

 

Sure, I didnt get to see my family for 3 years and spent 3 months locked in my apartment, but that was all worth it to become a "special" foreigner again and getting rid of all the trash. /s

 

I am curious though, if this is not about being "special" again, but rather getting rid of the "trash", how do these guys affect your daily life? As someone living in SH where most of the foreigner live, having these guys around has basically zero impact on my life. Sure, I might see another foreigner while sitting down to have a coffee, but that's basically it...

 

?‍♂️

[Baihande]

I wonder what makes @vellocet denounce other expats as "foreign trash". It's now more than half a century that I have been living as a foreigner in a near east country. At that time, there were almost no tourists visiting the country. Most of the  foreigners at that time where sent by their governments (diplomats, soldiers, development aid,..).  Quite a few of these foreigners  had a rather dismissive attitude to the people and the culture of the country they were living in. For example, although there was a perfectly good local brew available, they had to drink imported beer. The local music to their ears was caterwauling (just looked up this word for German "Katzenmusik"), and so on. Maybe the foreigners were not quite the average crowd. But doesn't that hold for most expats? Anyway, I think you can find  negative attitudes also with many locals. But even such obnoxious people aren't "trash". Simply avoid them. And consider: Aren't there locals for whom every foreigner is "trash"?