Lijiang, Yunnan

[Larry Language Lover]

Has anyone visited Lijiang in Kunming province?  If so, what was your experience and what did you think?

I have read some recent opinions that feel that it was better before it became a Unesco World Heritage Site.

Others that said it has become way to commercialized.   Any experiences?

[Tomsima]

Yunnan is great, but Lijiang was far too commercialised when I visited, everything felt a little too 'traveller industry' to me. It's still worth a visit, just as long as you go with the right expectations

[dakonglong]

I spent about a week in Lijiang a few years ago and I loved it. I remember the city itself being a little touristy, but the highlight of the trip by far was hiking Tiger Leaping Gorge and staying at the guest houses along the route. I would recommend that experience 1,000%.

[Larry Language Lover]

On 4/21/2024 at 1:34 AM, Tomsima said:

Lijiang was far too commercialised when I visited, everything felt a little too 'traveller industry' to me.

 

On 4/21/2024 at 2:24 AM, dakonglong said:

I remember the city itself being a little touristy,

 

 

 

The reason why I asked is that I am planning on studying Chinese in Kunming this summer.   The main campus of the school is in Kunming but they also offer other cities to study in.  If you study in other cities, the price is higher and does not include food.  The Kunming school is cheaper and also includes all meals.  Still, the option of spending time in other Yunnan places is very attractive.  Not only do they offer Lijiang, but they also offer Dali.

[Tomsima]

paging @abcdefg

 

I loved Dali, but I've heard some people say they didn't like it (for the same reason I didn't like Lijiang)

 

If it was me, I would study in Kunming, then go out on trips to the smaller places

[Lu]

I've been to Lijiang a few times and the old town is absolutely very touristy. Throngs and throngs of tourists, souvenir shops, local craft shops, cute coffee shops etc etc. Although my experience (some years back) was that the second you take one turn off the main road, it's suddenly quiet, still just as pretty but without the throngs and the cute coffee shops. And Lijiang is obviously bigger than just the old town, I have no idea what the rest of it looks like but it's probably not nearly as touristy or picturesque. It's been a Unesco Heritage Site for at least twenty years I think, so it feels a bit pointless to me to consider whether it was better before that.

 

Where you should go depends on what you want from your stay. Touristy places are usually touristy because they are pretty or otherwise very attractive, which Lijiang and Dali certainly are. The upside of the commercialisation is that it's easy to find nice restaurants, cute coffee shops and souvenirs for friends and family back home. I haven't spent real time in Kunming, I remember it as mainly a big city, which of course also has its advantages.

[Jim]

Not to go all hipster, but I visited as a student in the 1990s before it got all touristy and the earthquake that precipitated a rebuild; it was great then and only just starting to become known. It had featured in a UK documentary which is what inspired us to make the trip. Tiger Leaping Gorge the same, just two hippy guesthouses halfway along the trail. Returned with my brother a few years after that but still pre-boom.

[Tomsima]

very envious you got to see it before the boom! My favourite of the ancient towns that doesn't seem to have gone the way of 'over-touristification' was Shaxi 沙溪 (or at least it hadnt when we were there back in 2017).

[abcdefg]

On 4/21/2024 at 4:31 AM, Larry Language Lover said:

Still, the option of spending time in other Yunnan places is very attractive.  Not only do they offer Lijiang, but they also offer Dali.

 

Much better, in my opinion, to study in Kunming and take a side trip or two at some point to Dali and Lijiang. The logistics of that are apple-pie easy. You will have the benefit of a better selection of teachers in Kunming, and for a first-timer the city itself also has a lot to offer. I lived there most of 12 years and loved it. (Have been to Dali and Lijiang many times.) Here are some things to see and do in Kunming: 

 

https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/55348-a-minor-kunming-park-昙花寺公园/ 

https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/53449-green-lake-park-翠湖公园/

https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/55474-chasing-the-sun-kunmings-daguan-park-大观公园/ 

 

More here about one of my favorite spots in Kunming: https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/61588-why-kunming/. You can find other reports in the "Life, work, and study" forum. 

[Jan Finster]

I happen to be in Lijiang at the moment as a tourist. My first time. I have also considered taking classes at Keats and have been pondering the same questions regarding location. 

 

abcdefg is really the expert on Kunming and I have not yet bern there. Certainly in terms of teachers and cost, it makes sebse to study there. 

 

However, I find Lijiang an intriguing option as I think there may be more things you can do on weekends. Sure, you can take a train/plane from Kunming to any larger city in Yunnan, but in terms of day trips, hiking etc, Lijiang seems very appealing to me. 

 

Yesterday, I also discovered the probably best western supermarket I have seen in China to date (Lijiang International Shopping Plaza Mall, Lijiang International Shopping Plaza Mall). 

Coming from Shanghai, it is much, much better than Walmart or CitySuper in Ipam shopping mall. 

 

What I would not like about the alternatives to Kunming at Keats is that you stay/live with the teacher (correct me if I am wrong) (!?) 

 

[Singe]

On 4/21/2024 at 12:24 PM, dakonglong said:

hiking Tiger Leaping Gorge

 

That is right at the top of my bucket list. How did you find it? I'm fairly fit and an experienced hiker. Any issues? I did hear a few whispers about safety along the way - unfounded? Did you have any issues?

 

On 4/24/2024 at 12:51 PM, Jan Finster said:

I have also considered taking classes at Keats

 

Same. If you do, I'd love to hear about it.

[dakonglong]

On 4/24/2024 at 4:48 AM, Singe said:

That is right at the top of my bucket list. How did you find it? I'm fairly fit and an experienced hiker. Any issues? I did hear a few whispers about safety along the way - unfounded? Did you have any issues?

 

I did a ton of hiking at the time, so most of the route was pretty manageable. That said, I do remember being pretty winded by the end of the "28 bends". It's something like 2,000 ft of elevation gain in a very short stretch, plus you're climbing from 6,000ft - 8,000ft which adds to the cardio-vascular difficulty.

 

In terms of safety, I had heard the same. Specifically, I had heard not to hike it in the rain as there was a risk that you could slip off the trail in places. While the trail is pretty exposed, it was also pretty wide and flat (not slanted into the cliff, which would have made me worried). In the end, I DID hike it in the rain and I felt 100% safe the whole time.

 

The one part that was a bit sketchy; the entrance is in the middle of nowhere. I had to have my hotel negotiate a ride out and back for me in a taxi. I paid upfront and just trusted that the driver would come back to get me two days later. Thankfully, he did and I was able to get back. I probably could have asked one of the guest houses along the way to call me a taxi as an alternative, but my Chinese skills were not too great at the time, so it would have been a bit of a challenge.

 

All-in-all it is one of the greatest travel memories I have of anywhere in the world. It truly felt like an adventure. I would highly recommend it.

[Larry Language Lover]

On 4/22/2024 at 6:41 PM, abcdefg said:

 

Much better, in my opinion, to study in Kunming and take a side trip or two at some point to Dali and Lijiang.

Thanks so much for your response!  I was hoping you would see this and respond since I had read that you lived there many years and have lots of experience there!

 

On 4/24/2024 at 2:51 AM, Jan Finster said:

I happen to be in Lijiang at the moment as a tourist. My first time. I have also considered taking classes at Keats and have been pondering the same questions regarding location. 

 

abcdefg is really the expert on Kunming and I have not yet bern there. Certainly in terms of teachers and cost, it makes sebse to study there. 

 

However, I find Lijiang an intriguing option as I think there may be more things you can do on weekends. Sure, you can take a train/plane from Kunming to any larger city in Yunnan, but in terms of day trips, hiking etc, Lijiang seems very appealing to me. 

 

Yesterday, I also discovered the probably best western supermarket I have seen in China to date (Lijiang International Shopping Plaza Mall, Lijiang International Shopping Plaza Mall). 

Coming from Shanghai, it is much, much better than Walmart or CitySuper in Ipam shopping mall. 

 

What I would not like about the alternatives to Kunming at Keats is that you stay/live with the teacher (correct me if I am wrong) (!?) 

 

 

 Wow, I definitely envy you.   Kunming seems to be much cheaper and includes private room with bathroom and food in the price.  The other places only include lodging.   All of Keats locations are private rooms.  You can see pictures on their website of the Lijiang apartment.  Very attractive.   

The living in the teacher's home seems to have been a thing with LTL School when you are outside of Beijing or Shanghai.

[Larry Language Lover]

I have had another addition to my considerations too.   Since to get to Kunming the flights I checked all go to Beijing first,  I realized I should take advantage of this and see Beijing before starting at Kunming.   I don't know whether it would be better to just get a hotel and see Beijing on my own, maybe find a teacher,  or study at LTL School in Beijing.  I've always wanted to try them too.  They are pretty expensive however compared to Keats,  and thats just the classes only!

[Lu]

On 4/25/2024 at 9:58 AM, Larry Language Lover said:

I don't know whether it would be better to just get a hotel and see Beijing on my own, maybe find a teacher,  or study at LTL School in Beijing.

Depends on what you want.

It's totally doable to just get a hotel and see Beijing on your own (either on your way to Yunnan or on the way back, when your Chinese will be a little bit better).

Finding a teacher by yourself for a short period is not something I'd recommend. It would take time to organise that, you'd have to hope you find a teacher that suits you right away, if the teacher suddenly is not available, or less good, or whatever, you'd have to find a new one, etc. If you want to study in Beijing, best just book a language school there. Either LTL or one of the many other schools.

If I were you I think I'd visit Beijing on the way, and do the actual studying in Yunnan.

[suMMit]

I agree with @Lus advice. You definitely don't want to pass through 北京 without seeing the sights. I'd get a hotel room somewhere in the Hutong area, experience a bit of  Beijing and then go study in Yunnan. I can recommend a few accommodations and a good Great Wall trip, you can pm me if you want, also would be happy to meet up for a beer in the hutongs if I'm in town.

[abcdefg]

Larry, How much time do you have for this China trip, from touchdown in country to take-off? This makes a big difference in time-allocation decisions. 

[Jan Finster]

Larry, I have now spent 3 days in Lijiang and I shake my head at all the Reddit threads that say it is like a fake Disneyland. 

 

Lijiang Old Town is certainly very touristy, but even there you may suddenly find yourself alone in a beautiful side street

Further, there is more to Lijiang, e. g. 

Baisha Old Town, Shuhe Old Town, Jade Water Village, Black Dragon pool, Lashihai Wetland park, wonderful Naxi farmer's markets, etc. 

 

If you rent a scooter, you can go off the beaten path to amazing places. Today I saw "wild roaming" horses, cows, goats, etc.. 

 

[Singe]

On 4/25/2024 at 7:53 AM, dakonglong said:

In terms of safety,

 

Many thanks for your detailed reply. In terms of safety I had also heard of the occasional report of solo hikers being subjected to personal safety issues. Not sure if there's any truth in this?

[abcdefg]

Bear in mind that summer, the time of year for Larry's proposed trip, is rainy season in most of Yunnan and definitely in and around Lijiang. That will impact what you are able to do outdoors. When these summer rains come (starting in late June) they typically include violent downpours which make roads impassible and cause mud slides. Plus they are sudden.

 

I once went out for supper in Lijiang in August. Rains came. Streets flooded. I was stuck in the restaurant until well after midnight. My hotel finally organized a high-clearance farm truck to come get us. Cars and ordinary small trucks were disabled by the side of the roads, in some cases with water nearly up to their windows. Needless to say, any plans to hike Tiger Leaping Gorge that weekend would have had to be suspended.