Counting with fingers

[Mike]

Can someone explain (or even better show me with pictures) how the Chinese count with their fingers. There are lots of small differences around the world - palm facing, palm facing away and so on. Is there a standard approach across China or lots of variations? How is it in Beijing?

Just in relation to counting what about signs that might be confused with 'swear' signs. This two is good this one bad

Thanks in advance,

(Just found this - Who agrees? I have also seen 9 represented with the three smallest fingers rolled to the palm and held by the thumb (like a half fist) and with the finger nearest to the thumb being held up and bent in half)

Mike

[gougou]

I learned them completely different a long time ago. And then I discovered, that all Chinese seem to have their own ways of counting with their fingers. And then I decided not to become mute anytime soon and never used those gestures again...

[stephanhodges]

Here are pictures of all the numbers: http://www.chinese-tools.com/resources/number-gestures.html

Also a couple of wiki articles, one of which also references the above link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_numerals#Hand_gestures

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_number_gestures

[Mike]

Nice one stephanhodges, just what I was looking for. I notice that the images shown at chinese-tools and Laputan Logic look very similar but are in fact completely different for 1, 2 and 3, and slightly different for 4. Interesting!

[gunsella]

the website suggests that this is 7.

i could have sworn that this, or something similar was the symbol for 5. i was using it as 5 and everyone seemed to understand me.... maybe i was just living in a fantasy world. but no-one picked me up on it, and i was asking ppl about the symbol for 7. i couldn't get an answer.... go figure!

[gougou]

The one stephanhodges linked to is pretty much what I learned, only seven and eight were different. I think seven was an upwards pointing pinky, and eight a downwards pointing one. Not sure about the pinky, but eight definitely was the same thing as seven, only bottoms up.

Oh yeah, and ten I've seen just as a fist as well.

[Quest]

http://www.chinese-tools.com/resources/number-gestures.html

That's how I do it except for 7 and 10. My 7 is like 8 but with the index finger pointing down, and my 10 is an upward pointing thumb. Also, sometimes the 8 could be flipped down. 10 could also be two index fingers forming a cross like the Chinese character 10.

[gougou]

How often, and in what context, do Chinese actually use those (especially the ones larger than 5?)

And aren't these, instead of aiding communication, making it harder, as one gesture can have multiple meanings?

[kudra]

I seem to remember seeing this all the time, eg. in a market with the buyer saying he wanted however many oranges, or whatever. This was in 80's in Taiwan. In Taiwan, the 10 was often pronounced si2 ge, instead of shi2 ge. Generally any zh, ch, sh were not retroflexed, so they came out approximately z, q, s. So it made sense that for at least this 10-4 distinction, buyer and seller were double checking. Especially when the seller might not trust the laowai's tones. And then of course probably the seller in the market might have spoken Taiwan hua, with enough Mandarin to get by.

There are probably regional dialects for the gestures. If everyone here chimed in, with their usuage and where they used it/learned it we might be able to work it out. If it hasn't been already. I am not volunteering however.

Also, note that the 8, with the thumb and index pointing down looks like the character for 8.