Poetic Language

[Altair]

I am curious about what methods Chinese uses to create poetic language. I know that Chinese can use rhyme, but what other methods are there that might not be obvious to someone who speaks only English?

I recently read the first chapter of Chinese Poetry by Wai-Lim Yip which has a fascinating discussion about how the flexible grammar of Chinese poetry can express a sensual immediacy and movie-like feel that is often lost in translation. Apparently, the order of the Chinese characters can mimic the perceptual flow of events while still allowing the reader to "move about and observe the surroundings." Here is an example:

星垂平野阔

月涌大江流

Compare the order of the perceptions and the limits implied by these two translations:

star(s)/dangle/flat/plain/broad(ens)

moon/surge(s)/big/river/flow(s)

and

The stars lean down from open space

And the moon comes running up the river

While the second translation corresponds much better to the poetic language of English, it imposes a specific view of the events that is not required by the Chinese. If anyone is interested in more examples, I can give them.

I also recently read a book called something like "To Slay a Dragon in Indo-European." This book was fascinating because it discussed many methods of creating poetic language that are distinctive of Indo-European languages and that may have been preserved over thousands of years. Reading this book made clear to me how much of poetry can be lost if the reader is from a different culture and may not know what to look for.

Can anyone give examples of such things in Chinese?

If I were asked about English or European languages, I could give examples of such poetic devices as:

ring composition (i.e., begining and ending with the same word or theme),

using rhythm to simulate galloping on a horse or rowing a boat,

using variations in rhythm to accentuate a feeling of vastness or loneliness, or

using unusual word order to accentuate a feeling of wandering aimlessly through a meadow while in love. If anyone is interested in specific examples, I could put them on another forum.

In English, certain poetic forms sound inherently silly, serious, or shocking. Other forms can even suggest lewd language (e.g., "There once was a man from Nantucket..."). Is this true of the forms of Chinese poetry? Can anyone give examples?

[Outofin]

Compared to other languages, Chinese language has some unique qualitifies:

1. Every character is a single syllable, which helps to create rhythm.

2. Every character has the same length, which makes poems look very neat and balanced.

3. A character alone could have very vague and extensive meanings, which boosts your imagination.

A technique you didn’t mention is Matching 对仗

窗含西岭千秋雪

门泊东吴万里船

Literally translated, character by character

Window Contain West Moutain Thousand Year Snow

Door Host East Wu (Ten Thousand) Mile Boats

You could see, Door matches Window, East matches West, (Ten Thousand, this is a single character in Chinese) matches Thousand, Mile mataches Year.

The poem is perfectly matched.

I guess it’s very hard to understand it if you don’t understand the language. There’s also some explanation by Yutang Lin’s book My Country and My People. The book was written in English and he was a good scholar. (林语堂 吾国吾民)

[Altair]

Outofin, thank you so much for your response. I was afraid no one was interested in my question.

The concept of matching is an interesting one. Is this something that would be used within a longer poem or just in a short poem like what you have posted above? By the way, is that a complete poem?

On another forum, Florazheng posted:

在中国的律诗中，我们也有似类音步的格律。一般是平平仄仄或者仄仄平平相互交替（还有特例，这里我不说了）。平是指汉语中的１，２声（例如：天１，来２）；仄是指指汉语中的第３，４声　（例如：好３，去４）

在写诗中，如果不是两平跟两仄（或者就会被认为是失律，不合诗的格律，不是律诗。

如：海上升素月

　　仄仄平仄月　　（素是第四声，为仄音，这个句子不符合诗律的。需要把“素”这个字改成其它的字）

　　海上升明月

　　仄仄平平仄

How does this apply to the two pairs of verses posted above? They do not seem to follow the rule. Is it because the modern tones of putonghua do not match the tones of the earlier centuries?

[Outofin]

The poem was written by 杜甫. A very casual, popular, well-known peice. It's in school text book.

两个黄鹂鸣翠柳

一行白鹭上青天

窗含西岭千秋雪

门泊东吴万里船

There's a special form called 对联. You must be able search for it in the forum. I'd be very surprised if no one talked about it here. If you see Chinese traditional houses, on the two sides of the door, people hang some 对联. This could be played as a word game. One gives the first part, the other need to match it on pronouciation, meaning, internal logic, etc.

Regarding 律诗, I don't really know about it. I believe Florazheng is right. The rule is way too complicated. There're more than one form. The example you said is just one of them.

[zhxlier]

There are two types of sentences which are rhymetically correct:

1 （平平）仄仄平平仄，（仄仄）平平仄仄平

2 （仄仄）平平平仄仄，（平平）仄仄仄平平

The two types must be used alternatively. Eg, either 1212, or 2121.

Of course, there are numerous possible changes to the rules when you actually try to write a poem.

[Altair]

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my posts. By the way, I should clarify that I am less interested in the formal aspects of Chinese poetry as in what makes it enjoyable for the average person to read and in what makes it different from prose. Since I did not grow up speaking Chinese or reading Chinese poetry, I really do not know what to look for in trying to appreciate Chinese poetry.

There are two types of sentences which are rhymetically correct:

1 （平平）仄仄平平仄，（仄仄）平平仄仄平

2 （仄仄）平平平仄仄，（平平）仄仄仄平平

The two types must be used alternatively. Eg, either 1212, or 2121.

Of course, there are numerous possible changes to the rules when you actually try to write a poem.

Does a phrase like 海底 count as 仄仄 or 平仄, given that 海 will be pronounced as a second tone syllable? Is there any particular poem where the use of this scheme is particularly clever or memorable? Or is there a poem where this scheme creates any specific feeling you can put into words?

Compared to other languages, Chinese language has some unique qualitifies:

1. Every character is a single syllable, which helps to create rhythm.

Do modern poems contain 虚词 like 了 or 的, or would this spoil the rhythm?

Can anyone think of any other lines of poetry that are particularly memorable or enjoyable because of the pattern of words or sounds? From the responses, it is sounding as if the focus of Chinese poetry is much more on variations in meaning than on variations in sound.

[wushijiao]

Here is an interesting section from Lin Yu Tang's My Country and My People. I'll quote at length:

The striking thing about Chinese poetry is its plastic imagination and its kinship in technique with painting. This is the most evident in the handling of perspective. Here the analogy between Chinese poetry and painting is almost complete. Let us begin with perspective. Why is it that when we read the lines of Li Po (who is 李白, I think) (701-762)-

Above the man's face arise the hills;

Beside the horse's head emerge the clouds,

we are presented with a bold outline of a man traveling on horseback on a high mountain path? The words, short and sharp and meaningless at first sight, will be found, with a moment's use of the imagination, to give us a picture as a painter would paint it on his canvas, and conceal a trick of perspective by using some objects in the foreground ("the man's face" and "the horse's head") to set off the distant view. Entirely apart from the poetic feeling that the man is so high up in the mountains, one realizes that the scenery was looked at by the poet as if it were a piece of painting on a flat surface. The readeer would then see, as he actually sees in paintings or snapshots, that hilltops seem to rise from the man's face and the clouds nestling somewhere in the distance form a line broken by the horse's head. This clearly was not possible if the poet was not on horseback and the clouds were not lying on the lower level in the distance. In the end, the reader has to imagine himself on horseback on a high mountain path and view the scene from the same perspective as the poet did.

Lin also mentions the way Chinese poet's describe smell. And he gives his own example (which I like):

Coming back over the flowers, fragrant are the

horse's hoofs.

[Altair]

Wushijiao, thanks for your post. It reminds me of a German poem whose imagery I have always liked. The poem is entitled Grab und Mond and can be viewed here.

Since I realize most people on this board cannot read German, let me give an English rendering that might suggest some of the same rhythm and rhyme:

Silver-grayish moonbeams fall,

In a wave,

Sinking rays of light to crawl,

In the grave.

Dearest moon, the sleeper's friend,

Give me sight!

In the grave is dark the end,

or else light?

Keeping mute? Then, quiet grave,

You know best.

Taking so much light to save

At your breast;

Rays of light you do not lack,

Humour me!

Open up, just give one back!:

"Come and see!"

The poem impresses me because it gives some of the indirect spatial feel that comes from Chinese poetry. First the viewpoint is looking up talking to the moon, then switches to looking down talking to the grave. The moonbeams provide the link. The motion and spatial is even clearer in German because of particles like "herab" and "hinein" which correspond to Chinese 下来 and 进来.

I also think the play of opposites is similar, because of the contrast between light and dark, speech and silence, friendship and hostility, knowledge and ignorance. I find especially poignant that it is the dark, silent, hostile grave that actually gives the answer to the question, saying: "Come and see!"

What I find in this poem, but cannot yet find in most Chinese poems, is how the structure supports the meaning. In this poem, for instance, the short lines provide an echo of what is truly important in the poem. The rhyme scheme links all these together. The stress pattern also helps to separate the lines, since each line begins and ends with a stressed syllable.

How about Chinese nursery rhymes? Can someone give me examples or describe their structures?

[Sophia_Shang]

In Ancient Chinese poems, we also use "互文". It is such kind of a method: Poets who what to get unification for the words and harmony for the sounds, divide their poem lines into two parts, but when you read it, you should reconstruct them together. It is “互文见义”, “互文” for short.

Par exemple,

秦时明月汉时关 which actually means 秦时汉时明月关

花径不曾缘客扫，

蓬门今始为君开。

have the meaning of

花径&蓬门 不曾缘客扫，今始为君开。

And I got some further explanations from the net as below,

１、明月别枝惊鹊，清风半夜鸣蝉。（辛弃疾《西江月》）

　　译：在明月下，在清风吹拂中，传来了鹊和蝉的鸣叫。

　　２、将军百战死，壮士十年归。（《木兰诗》）

　　译：将军和壮士从军十年，经历了千百次残酷的战斗，有的死了，有的胜利归来。

　　３、当窗理云鬓，对镜帖花黄。（《木兰诗》）

　　译：向着窗户，对着镜子、梳理云一样的秀发，把黄花帖在脸上。

　　４、雄兔脚扑朔，雌兔眼迷离。（《木兰诗》）

　　译：雄兔雌兔脚扑朔眼迷离。

　　5、山光悦鸟性，潭影空人心。（常建《题破山寺后禅院》）

　　译：湖光山色使鸟儿欢娱，使人心除去杂念。

　　6、歧王宅里寻常见，崔九堂前几度闻。（杜甫《江南逢李龟年》）

　　在歧王宅里和崔九堂前，我们都经常相会。