不是

[Desmond]

Hey guys,

I'm sorry to bother most of you on this topic because I know it has been discussed in the old thread, but sadly the old thread seemed to have expired now.

Basically it was supposedly about how people have heard 不是 being pronounced in other ways than bu2shi4 (such as bu4shi) and was wondering if this was true?

Thanks!

[semantic nuance]

never heard of bu4shi to mean 不是. Bu2shi4 is the correct answer. Hope it helps! :)

[HashiriKata]

I suppose it can be pronounced as "bu2shi" (as opposed to "bu2shi4"). The difference is very minor, however.

[necroflux]

Talking to a fluent friend, apparently the bu can sometimes be spoken as a 1 tone, but never a four, and the shi is always a 4. By and large, however, I think bu2shi4 is as close to a standard across dialects as there is in Mandarin.

[bhchao]

never heard of bu4shi to mean 不是.

I have never heard of bu4shi as the pronunciation for 不是 while in Taiwan. semantic is right.

[Desmond]

I just heard someone say 不是 really quickly, and analyzed the tones. It was bu2shi. So yeah, Hashirikata, I'm going with you on this one. It seems that it's said like this when someone wants to emphasise 不 ， but that's just my guess so far.

====

Actually, I just checked out an old audio tape of mine (for my first year chinese class) in hopes they had something like "我不是老师" and there it was, bu2shi. I guess waaaaay back when I first started learning Chinese, I wouldn't be able to tell much difference between bu2shi4 and bu2shi (let alone bu4shi if it had been that).

[Ferno]

if you "analyze" the tones, you'll find that tons of tones are pronounced wrong.ie: at fast pace, there's no difference between third and second tones, I'm sorry I just can't hear any.

[Desmond]

Really? I never seemed to have the problem of hearing the 2nd and 3rd tones sound the same.... however I find at fast paces, 2nd tones often sound a lot like neutral tones. Even at the end of sentences (like in 没问题). Ti2 often sounds quite neutralized.

[necroflux]

Yeah Desmond I agree with you - in normal (ultrafast to us) speech 1st tones are as expected, second tones are spoken flatly or neutral (maybe just a hint of a rise in there), 3rd tones are low and flat (no rising edge at the end) and 4th tones are as expected. There are times where 2nd tones are accentuated, however, for instance at the end of a sentence.

OT, but I recently read that the ancient Chinese language was not tone based - and many Chinese I talk to say they believe sentences could be understood without tones at all - which I guess is already the case for modern music. So maybe future Chinese will continue to flatten the difference between tones until they are ultimately thrown out!

[bhchao]

After thinking through this, 不是 can sound like bu1shi4. I have heard people pronounce it that way.

There is no such pronunciation as bu4shi4. That sounds like the Mandarin pronunciation of President Bush. (can't believe I addressed him that way)

I suppose it can be pronounced as "bu2shi"

You mean bu2shi1? That is incorrect pronunciation and sounds extremely out of the ordinary. The shi part is always a 4th tone, unless there are some regions in China that pronounce it otherwise, which I highly doubt.

[Desmond]

After thinking through this, 不是 can sound like bu1shi4. I have heard people pronounce it that way.

This actually fits in really well with another thread on this forum. It discussed how a second tone, when between two other tones, becomes quite short and often sounds like a first tone. So "wo3 bu2shi4" can sound like "wo3 bu1shi4". This is unless the shi4 becomes neutralized... then bu2 should sound like a second tone.

I suppose it can be pronounced as "bu2shi"

You mean bu2shi1? That is incorrect pronunciation and sounds extremely out of the ordinary.

By "bu2shi" I meant that the "shi" was a neutral tone, not like a first tone. I've never heard it like a first tone before. I'm really, really sure the guy on my tape (which I just dug up from my first lesson in Chinese) said the "shi" as if it were neutral. I'm guessing maybe to emphasize the "bu2"?

[amego]

singaporeans say bu4 shi4...

[adrianlondon]

As "bu" should be fourth tone if spoken in isolation, I've only ever heard "bu4shi4" when the two words are spoken very slowly, as if the person really wanted just to state "NO!" and said "bu4" and then decided to add "shi4" a second or two later

As an aside, it was mentioned above, about being able to understand the language without any tones... "which I guess is already the case for modern music".

Not in my experience. Yes, I guess context sorts out most of the problems, but my Taiwanese friends tend to spend quite a bit of time searching the net for lyrics as they don't understand what is being sung. I asked why, and they said that as the tones are all messed up, and some song lyrics are really poetic and "unusual" as it is, they've not got a clue what's going on

[amego]

yea i agree...nowadays songs are getting weirder and weirder, perhaps to stand out...esp Taiwan Jay Chou 周杰倫, with creative lyrics by 方文山, coupled with his slurred and muffled singing (i like him though) , u'll need e lyrics to properly appreciate his chim(深 hokkien for profound) music...esp his renowned machine-gun raps...