a better word for "province" than "sheng3 fen4"?

[stewie]

does one exist? I tried asking a few Chinese which province they were from, using "sheng3f en4", and nobody seemd to know what I was trying to ask. I'm pretty sure I was getting the tones right because I'd memorised it from the talking dictionary at http://hua.umf.maine.edu

[Quest]

Use 省 instead of 省份 -> 你从哪个省来？ or simply 你是哪里人？ 你家乡在哪儿？

[889]

Remember that if you want to be fussy, places like Xinjiang and Guangxi aren't provinces but semi-autonomous regions, and Shanghai, Beijing, Tianjin and Chongqing are directly-administered cities that don't lie in any province or region. Thus you'll often see references in Chinese text to sheng/qu/shi 省/区/市 "province/region/city" since sheng 省 alone wouldn't cover all the bases.

[Quest]

It's usually 省->市->区

[Lu]

Asking Ni shi nali ren? is a nice way around the word sheng, but sometimes when I asked that I got the answer 'Zhongguoren'. Well yeah, I figured that out already :-/

[laohu489]

sometimes when I asked that I got the answer 'Zhongguoren'. Well yeah' date=' I figured that out already

[/quote']

I hate that answer, he he he

[Ferno]

I thought it was ni3 shi4 nar2 de ren2?

[xiaocai]

区 is not equal to 少数民族自治区. 广西壮族自治区 can not be abbreviated to 广西区.

你是从哪里来的?

[LiYuanXi]

I hate this answer too: 我从我妈肚子里来。

[Lu]

我从我妈肚子里来。

LOL

Ni shi Zhongguo de shenme difang lai de? works well, can't recall any stupid answers to that one.

[Ferno]

so "ni3 shi4 nar2 de ren2?" for asking where someone is from is wrong?

[Jose]

Ferno,

where = nǎr, nǎli

there = nàr, nàli

here = zhèr, zhèli

The standard pronunciation for "where" is nǎr, not nár. The forms ending in "-r" are often associated with Beijing speech, but are nonetheless standard. Speakers from the south and other areas tend to prefer the "-li" forms.

[Ferno]

Oh.

yeah and it's a question (rising) so i doubt most speakers would actually pronounce that third tone as a dip/rise. I never knew it was a 3rd tone.

[Ferno]

hmm from Chinesepod..

jianfei Says:

November 25th, 2005 at 1:27 pm

I am a Mandarin native speaker. Here are the expressions of “where are you from”?

1. NI NA LI LAI DE? 你哪里来的？this is quite formal expression.

2. NI NA-R LAI DE? 你哪儿来的？this is pretty daily relaxing expression.

3. NI SHI NALI REN?你是哪里人？ again, very formal one, but not friendly, not used often in daily life.

4. NI (SHI) NA-R DE? 你是哪儿的？very informal, usually used in an informal socializing situation, for example, at a party, newly known people through your friend, to creat a very close and friendly air.

5. NI SHI NALI LAI DE ？你是哪里来的？ This is the safest way to ask, suggest for everyone.

6. NI CONG NALI LAI ? 你从哪里来？

7。 NI CONG SHENME DIFANG LAI ？ 你从什么地方来？This is correct too, but not shows your friendiness.

8. NI (SHI) NA GE SHENG LAI DE ? 你（是）哪个省来的？WHICH PROVINCE YOU COME FROM？ this is used when you can tell the people is from another province.

can anyone confirm this?

"ni3 shi4 nar3 de ren2?" isn't even there

and it appears that both nar3 and na3 li are used.

[kudra]

yeah and it's a question (rising) so i doubt most speakers would actually pronounce that third tone as a dip/rise. I never knew it was a 3rd tone.

I think we have been over this. I don't think the 3rd changes into 2nd tone in fast speech.

I mean' date=' a fast 3rd tone (if not neutralized) should be distinguishable from a fast 2nd tone.

Also, I don't think the fact that it is a question affects the 3rd tone. I seem to remember Quest weighing in on this.

can anyone confirm this?

"ni3 shi4 nar3 de ren2?" isn't even there

and it appears that both nar3 and na3 li are used.

I think what Jose was getting at is if you have heard ni3 shi4 na3li de ren2, then that automatically validates ni3 shi4 nar3 de ren2.

Also, as discussed in a previous thread nali is actually pronounced na2li since the 3rd tone of the li, while neutralized, still makes the na3 into na2. I'm not going to discuss the fine points of this reasoning since I don't have a graduate degree in Linguistics. It is sufficient that native speakers say it that way, end of discussion.

Also, from your examples from the chinesepod.com blog

4. NI (SHI) NA-R DE? 你是哪儿的？

notice the 的. This means that 哪儿 is modifying some noun. Where is it' date=' and what is it?

It is an implied 人.

Also,

3. NI SHI NALI REN?你是哪里人？

there is an implied 的, between 里 and 人.

As jianfei points out, there are various degrees of formality or familiarity when dropping some of the syllables. But I think the basic sentence is ni shi nali de ren (which by jose's theorem is equivalent to ni shi nar de ren).

[winnipegli]

你家哪的??? NI JIA NA DE??

[成赋君]

That's not polite

[goldie]

i've been doing this in class with my students.

ni3 shi4 na2 li3 ren2? is vague enough to cover most options, you can also say 'ni3 shi4 na2 li3 lai2 de?, na2 li3 as noted above can alwayes be changed to nar3, which as also noted above is used by Beijingers, but is understandable where ever.

another way to ask this question can be 'ni3 de jia1 xiang1 zai4 nar3/na2li? jia xiang often refers to where people's ancestors come from, it's a very personal question and Chinese people (at least in Taiwan) feel a deep connection to their 'jia xiang' even if they haven't been there for many many years, or ever.

[Quest]

Also, I don't think the fact that it is a question affects the 3rd tone. I seem to remember Quest weighing in on this.

I gave up.

[Ferno]

I think i'm deaf