Should Japanese names be read with Japanese pronunciation?

[bathrobe]

OK, I'm going to toss a controversial one.

A few years ago, the Japanese were exhorted to use the correct pronunciation for Korean and Chinese names. Thus, Deng Xiaoping should be given as Don Shaopin (the closest the Japanese can get to the Chinese pronunciation!) rather the normal Japanese reading of Tou Shouhei. It doesn't seem to have lasted very long, but the attempt was made.

(I'm not sure of the background to this; I suspect it was pressure from Koreans in Japan, who took umbrage at having their Korean names read Japanese style).

No one, it appears, has ever demanded the same of the Chinese. But really, is it not somewhat disrespectful to call Mr Yamada 'Shantian' instead of his proper Japanese name?

I'm aware that there are practical questions involved (how are the Chinese expected to know the Japanese reading of kanji?) as well as questions of pride (why should we have to read our characters the Japanese way?). But it has always intrigued me that the Chinese feel no compunction about mangling Japanese names.

I would like to throw this to the Forum for comment.

[skylee]

Most Chinese people wouldn't know Kaneshiro Takeshi is 金城武 if his name is pronounced in Japanese. I guess many Chinese people wouldn't even know it is the Japanese capital you are talking about if you say you are going to Tokyo instead of "Dongjing".

[holyman]

well koreans themselves called japan like 'ill-bon'(they used the old pronociation of 'j' as 'i') and china something like 'chung-gok', so i dont see why they can demand that from others.

[Ian_Lee]

I guess it all depends if you are the boss or the worker.

I used to work in a Japanese company. My co-worker whose last name was Chan/Chen was being called by the Japanese boss as "Chin San". The other one whose last name was Cheung/Zhang/Chang was being called "Tyoo San".

But I guess if it is the other way around, the Chinese boss would call his worker Toyoda as "Fongtian"!

[Ian_Lee]

Actually the best way to avoid your name being called the Japanese way is to give them the Katakana pronounciation.

That is how most Hong Kong entertainers do in Japan.

Jackie Chan, Kelly Chan, Agnes Chan, Leslie Cheung,....etc are all listed with only their Katakana pronounciations (which is much more accurate) in the commercials promoted in Japan.

In fact, I used the katakana pronounciation for my name when I was checked in the hospital in Japan.

[smithsgj]

Apparently "Taiwan" in Japanese is written, and pronounced more or less, as in Chinese. Even though the kanji don't have those readings.

How is "Hong Kong" written and pronounced?

THe other way round, trade names are often pronounced in Chinese as Japanese (or as if English, perhaps). Taiwanese people say "Mitsubishi" not "Hui-feng" and "Yamaha" not "Shan-Ye".

[芳芳]

I think it is okay to pronounce names the local way. If Florence moves to the UK or the US' date=' is her name going to be pronounced the French way?[/quote']

Ooooh, no, they're really unable to say it correctly and who cares?

(even if I started to try hard to make them say it my way, I gave up a long time ago. exemple vecu:

-My name is Florence (french pron.)

-He?

-Florence (french pron.)

-Floooochonce?

-No! Florence (french pron.)

-Fl...ce?

-...well, try: Florence (local pron., Uk, Us or whatever)

-AH! Yeah! Florence! Wonderfull!

-:?

Everybody all over the world is pronouncing the foreign names the way he can (according to his language, his foreign languages skills), so ...

I even noticed in my chinese teaching book that when there were a Japanese, they put the pinyin of his characteres in the pinyin part (wheeas the foreign names where not in pinyin like "rang"->John, but in the translation is english, his name was pronounced the japanese way...

And so that chinese don't have any system of katakana and they are not supposed to know the pronounciation of any kanji in japanese, japanese will continue to have their name pronounced the chinese way, unless they politely tell their interlocutor the true pronounciation of their name.

[skylee]

Hong Kong is writen in kanji "香港" and pronounced "Hon Kon" (ホンコン in katakana).

We call Mitsubishi "三菱" (too many syllables if pronounced otherwise, and what is Hui-feng BTW?), but Yamaha is very often called "Yamaha" and less often called "山葉".

[Guest timc18]

I'm just curious, but how would the japanese say...

鄭秀文..or...

陳庭玉

or...陳水扁??

[Ian_Lee]

I believe 鄭秀文 is called in Japan by her English name Sammy Cheng and written in katakana as other HK celebrities are.

Who is 陳庭玉?

For President 陳水扁, I think his name is written in Kanji on Japan's media.

[smithsgj]

> what is Hui-feng BTW?

Sky it's the name of a Mitsubishi distributor in Taiwan that for years I'd assumed was "Mitsubishi" in characters. Even though I sort of knew mitsu meant 3. .

[Guest timc18]

I believe 鄭秀文 is called in Japan by her English name Sammy Cheng and written in katakana as other HK celebrities are.

Who is 陳庭玉?

For President 陳水扁' date=' I think his name is written in Kanji on Japan's media.[/quote']

I made up the name 陳庭玉 because I was interested in how the characters are pronounced.

and I didn't mean how the japanese media cover sammi and president chen, I was wondering how those characters would be read in japanese.

[skylee]

陳水扁=ちんすいべん (chinsuiben) (read this)

鄭秀文=サミー・チェン (samii chen) (probably てい ひでふみ Tei Hidefumi if it were a Japanese name)

[Guest Anonymous]

wow skylee...u no japanese...i no too.... .....but i dont have the program to type them...........

[skylee]

Nor I. I copied the kana to that post.

[nnt]

wow skylee...u no japanese...i no too.... .....but i dont have the program to type them...........

If you use Windows 2000 or XP , you already have all that's necessary to type Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Hebrew, etc...

[smithsgj]

Indian??? Hope 插娜小姐 doesn't see that one!

[pazu]

Chinese has no "compunction" about mangling Japanese names? This is the strangest comment about Chinese and Japanese I've ever heard.

This is just a way to change one's language to suit well in the other one and I don't see any problem in it.

Do you know how many languages you have to know if you want to prounounce all the places' names in the World Map without MANGLING the other languages?

What a funny idea.

[nnt]

Indian??? Hope 插娜小姐 doesn't see that one!

Let's give some technical information:

If you go there (for example):

http://www.baraha.com/html_help/baraha/unicode_support.htm

you'd read this:

"Indian Language Unicode Support in Windows Operating Systems

The support for Indian languages was not available until Windows 2000 was released. "

[smithsgj]

If you use Windows 2000 or XP , you already have all that's necessary to type Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Hebrew, etc...

Let's give some linguistic information. Not only is Indian not a language... it's not even a linguistic group, or a linguistic term of any sort.

Or have the Redmond rednecks now turned it into such a term?