Textbook recommendation

[tsp_uk]

Hi, I am a British born Chinese and would like to learn Mandarin. At home I speak Cantonese to my parents, I can listen to Hakka but cannot speak it. My mother speaks Mandarin, Hakka and Cantonese. My Chinese writing and reading is very basic, I used to go to Chinese school on weekends and we used the traditional method.

So could someone please recommend which textbooks should I buy? Reading this forum, many people seem to like "The New Practical Chinese reader", would you recommend this to me?

On Amazon there is one called "Reading and Writing Chinese: A Guide to the Chinese Writing System" and "Reading & Writing Chinese: Simplified Character Edition", both of them seem to be very good, but I don't know whether I should pay attention to Traditional or Simplified. I would prefer Traditional but I understand how important Simplified would be if I was to be in Mainland China.

Many thanks for your reply!

[WilsonFong]

Hey tsp_uk, I"m in a pretty similar situation as yours. I'm a Canadian born Chinese who speaks some Cantonese and started to learn Mandarin about a year ago. I don't really know what are the best books for you to start learning but I can tell you a bit about what I've purchased throughout my learning history.

Personally, I started off with Teach Yourself Chinese and Intermediate Chinese by Elizabeth Scurfield and Yong Ho, respectively. I started off with the first 18 chapters of TYC and then proceded to Intermediate Chinese and finished off with the last four chapters of TYC. I can't comment on the NPCR much, because I haven't used it, but I do know it's very popular and is used by most universities in North America (including the one I went to).

An audio program would also be excellent to practice pronounciation. I'm sure most would agree that The Pimsleur Series is the best one. Please note that they are very expensive though.

Of course, you'd also want at least one dictionary. I recommended Chinese Characters: A Genealogy and Dictionary by Rick Harbaugh. The characters are organized etymologically, making it easier to memorize them. I also recommend a standard E-C/C-E dictionary such as the ones by Collins or Oxford.

If you can also find materials that compare Cantonese to Mandarin I think that should also help. I personally have Colloquial Cantonese and Putonghua Equivalents by Zeng Zifan (trans. S.K. Lai). It doesn't use the Yale system and it's not organized very well, but it does contain quite an extensive list of phrases. If there is a Cantonese TV station where you live, you can also learn by watching those TVB dramas (yes, I know they're awful) with subtitles and then learn how to pronounce those words in Mandarin and what their Cantonese equivalents are, which is what I do sometimes.

As for writing characters, I don't think you need to purchase a book exclusively on writing. You can d/l a pdf called How to Write Chinese Characters, which is linked to on a post in this website. Lastly, I think it's a good idea to know both traditional and simplified characters, which is why I think you should start with traditional, because it is easier to move from trad. to simplified than vice-versa.

Hope this helps

[HashiriKata]

You can d/l a pdf called How to Write Chinese Characters, which is linked to on a post in this website.

This should be useful to many people here. Could you tell us which post it is in ( or give a link to it), WilsonFong?

[WilsonFong]

sorry, forgot where it was posted. i'm sure it's still somewhere on the website. i'd upload the file if i knew how.

[Ole]

Is this the reference in question ? (How to Write Chinese Characters.pdf)

[WilsonFong]

yeah, thanks Ole

[self-taught-mba]

You say you want to “learn Mandarin”. It depends on what you mean by learn. Do you mean you want to be able to read, write, and speak? The extent to which you focus on these areas is important. Too many programs and books put too much emphasis on writing.

The short answer is: there’s no one really good book. You’re going to have to use multiple sources like second poster suggested.

The practical reader is a good series of books however certain parts are less than satisfactory. In China, most places use the BLCU press books, which also have some of the problems. Example: describing things as a reflexive fricative sound blah blah blah . . . as opposed to just saying it is similar to the English word ______.

I also have issues with the way vocabulary is chosen in these books. (limited use vocabulary studied before useful vocabulary)

However, there is a reason why these books are used and they are a good starting point. I found one of the best books to get someone started immediately is the Lonely Planet pocket guide/book. It definitely is simple. Its simplicity is wonderful in getting someone started right away, introducing easy, quick, pinyin pronunciation explanations, most commonly used verbs and some simple structures. (this has limitations of course. Example: it does not differentiate between “ch” and “q” OR “j” vs “zh” which have subtle differences.) Despite limitations, I find this to be an excellent starting guide that easily and quickly explains things that are not covered for several chapters in the practical reader/ BLCU books.

Furthermore, I have found self learners who focus on pinyin first, get the pronunciation down quickly because every time they review their flashcards it is an instant reminder of the exact pronunciation. With many books (the two aforementioned series included) it is impossible to study only spoken. So keep this in mind if you want to focus on oral communication.

Pimsleur is good but it also has shortcomings too.

In terms of characters I think it is better to learn the simplified first. Here’s why:

In my MBA program, we had cultural events for the Asian Business Society. Both Taiwanese and mainland Chinese attended. I noticed (and inquired and confirmed) that the mainland Chinese people were able to follow the karaoke words on the screen regardless of whether or not they were simplified or traditional. However, the Taiwanese could only follow traditional.

I’ve asked many Chinese friends about this, and all the mainlanders say they can always pick up a traditional newspaper and get by although sometimes there’s some guesswork. I have seldom met a Taiwanese person who can do the same in reverse. This is kind of intuitive: it is easier to add than to take away and still understand.

Also, when I send my Taiwan friends e-mails, I must convert to traditional otherwise they don’t understand.

Beyond that:

>It is easier to learn to write simplified

>it takes less time to write simplified once learnt

>more people use simplified

>computer programs facilitate typing, which for most professionals is replacing writing by hand

>computer programs can facilitate conversion between the two

>there are now more learning materials using simplified than traditional

I hope this helps.

[HashiriKata]

Thanks to WilsonFong and Ole for posting the link to the file "How to Write Chinese Characters"!

In this connection, I wonder if anyone knows of an online (or downloadable) Chinese Character Dictionary where you can see the order of the strokes in animation. I've certainly seen this feature in a few dictionaries but can't remember where. (I don't need this myself but a few beginners have asked me for this, so I thought it would be helpful to point them to those useful programs/ dictionaries.)

Cheers,

[geraldc]

The most important thing is to get a book that has accompanying tapes, and just get used to reading out aloud and repeating the tape.

If you've already got some cantonese, then I recommend this dictionary, as it gives the Cantonese and Mandarin pronunciation of each character, and traditional and simplified characters.

[Celso Pin]

I have seen really beautiful books named "zhongwen" 中文 from Jinan University. there is a CD with audio and video for each book. the site to take a look is http://202.116.29.86:6600/web/zw.htm

[self-taught-mba]

I wonder if anyone knows of an online (or downloadable) Chinese Character Dictionary where you can see the order of the strokes in animation.

Here are a few:

http://www.csulb.edu/~txie/azi/page1.htm

http://lost-theory.org/ocrat/chargif/menuce.html

(originally from: http://www.ocrat.com/ocrat/chargif/ which is now down and has been for some time. I think that it is gone. It is really such a shame, we really need to support web sites such as these)

Some downloadable software programs also will do this. Wenlin and a few others

Hope this helps,

[atitarev]

So could someone please recommend which textbooks should I buy? Reading this forum, many people seem to like "The New Practical Chinese reader", would you recommend this to me?

Yes, it's a good textbook for beginners. If you decide to start learning traditional, this isn't the best for learning it, it's introduced (in character and disctionary parts) and starting from volume 2 - all main texts also appear in traditional at the back of the book, if, like me you want to learn simplified and just familiarise with traditional, you can use this one. I am about to begin volume 3. All texts have also audio recordings - natural and slow. New characters (simplified) can be traced over and practised in a workbook. Workbooks are a must for volume 1 and 2. The first 2 volumes introduce about 700 active characters (you have to trace them, they are used and explained) and quite a few passive (used only in exercises and additional readings).

As other posters said, you may want to use different sources.

I, personally, don't like Pimsleur, the vocabulary is very small, but it's probably good for someone to go slowly - it's very expensive, though and IMHO, is not worth it.

I have covered thoroughly 1) "Teach Yourself Chinese", 2) "Teach Yourself Beginner's Chinese" and 3) "Colloquial Chinese", they are just an introduction. 1 and 3 have characters accompanying pinyin, 2 - only introduces a few characters - but has the best dialogues out of the 3. If you can afford to buy them, it will only help. For #2 I had to type in all the character texts. It's a big disadvantage of the book but the audio is great. Browse through the books in your bookshop before you buy!

I am not happy with any Chinese book dictionary but you need at least a dictionary with pinyin for the main characters/words and for the examples (Langenscheidt).

A great piece of software for learning Chinese is WenLin - ABC dictionary, input, 2 sets of characters, convesion tools, animated stroke orders, history of characters and many more features. The interface and the shortcuts take some getting used to.

[tsp_uk]

Thanks for all your replies, at home there is no shortage of reading materials for me as my family orders Chinese newspapers and magazines.

I guess I just want to improve my Chinese in every aspect, as sometimes I wonder if my grammar, reading, writing and listening is really correct. Although we do watch HK dramas I understand every word they say.

It's such a shame that I'm only taking Chinese seriously now when I used to go to Chinese school on weekends and didn't really care about it (when I was younger).

More replies are welcomed