Wubixizing input on English XP?

[davidpbrown]

I'm wondering that typing Wubixizing might help my learning Chinese.. if true, does anyone know how to install a Wubi input on English XP?

I've got the obvious Pinyin IME which works and also have installed ~?IME's via a link suggested on the ["Five strokes" Chinese character input method] thread but those, although they appear in the input/keyboard taskbar, don't seem to do anything but type a-z characters.

[mantis]

I am a native mandarin speaker. I don't think that typing Wubizixing might help you learning Chinese. Wubizixing is a way definitely rude to dismantle chinese characters.

If you are good at pinyin and reading characters you will find you can type characters on a computer.

In a word wubizixing is not becoming to chinese learner.

[davidpbrown]

Thanks mantis,

I'll stick to pinyin, it's just the idea of ~writing the character seems so much more natural.

[roddy]

I disagree - quote from Imron in the thread linked above.

For a foreigner, learning Wubi doesn't just have the benefit of speed, it also helps you learn to recognise and break-up characters into their composite shapes. For that alone it's worth learning over pinyin input methods.

Roddy

[liandage]

For a foreigner, learning Wubi doesn't just have the benefit of speed, it also helps you learn to recognise and break-up characters into their composite shapes. For that alone it's worth learning over pinyin input methods.

I disagree:

Wubi break up the chinese characters in the way to faciliate a fast learning and input of Chinese character using English keyboard, not the natural way. Take an English word as analog:

"pre-mature" can be naturally broken into "pre" and "mature". If you break it up to "pr" and "emature", and try to remember a word this way will poison the correct understanding for this word. I think that's the way Wubi break up Chinese words.

[imron]

If you use pinyin input methods to type chinese then you are relying on passive memory to type. i.e. you don't recognise or visualise the character until you see it written in front of you. Passive memory is ok, but if you've ever been frustrated because you know how to read a word but don't know how to write it, then this is your problem.

Using something like wubizixing requires you to use active memory. That is, you have to actively picture/visualise the character before you can type it. So, learning to type like this means you are learning to visualise the shape and makeup of characters in your head... something that helps not only in typing, but also in writing. Having a good active memory is also useful in many other areas of learning/life.

For people who lament that computers and typing are causing them to "forget" a lot of characters, using something like wubizixing instead of pinyin input methods is a great way to solve this problem.

liandage, wubi breaks up characters based on stroke order and character shape. So, for example, to type the word 字, you type 宀 then 子. Perfectly natural, and based on how people normally remember/write a character. Yes there are a few exceptions but for the most part learning wubizixing teaches you how to write the character, without needing to actually write it out a dozen times. Learning wubizixing really drives home the fact that a character is made up of several different smaller parts and conditions you to break characters down into their component parts which ultimately makes it easier for you to learn characters.

Anyway, I am a non-native Chinese speaker and have found learning wubizixing to be both useful and helpful in my Chinese studies. I would recommend it to any foreigner learning Chinese. If you keep at it, it will also have the additional benefit of making you a fast typist. My typing speed in Chinese is currently at about 30 cpm - which is still far below what I'd like, but it's much faster than what I get from using pinyin, and in any event, it's currently limited more by my ability (or lack of ability) to think in Chinese, rather than my ability to type a character quickly.

For those interested in learning, I recommend the program: 五笔快打. Which costs a mere 25RMB (14 day free trial). The same company also makes a Wubi input method which is quite good, and the above listed program includes a trial version of this method as part of the program.

If you're having problems with garbage characters in the above programs, you will need to set the default non-unicode language to be Chinese. This can be done in: Control Panel->Regional and Language Settings->Advanced and then set the language for non-Unicode applications to be Chinese (PRC).

davidpbrown: What wubi input methods did you install from that link? There are a couple of different ones listed there.

[autumn]

I've just downloaded 五笔快打 and it seems great. My speed is nowhere near 30 characters per minute though.

I would really like to pay to register it but have neither a bank account nor cell phone in China. Is there anyway around this? I have a Visa and Paypal account but they don't seem to be of any use in China.

[imron]

The easiest way around it would be to find someone in China, and get them to do it for you. I'd offer, but I'm currently back in Australia on holidays and don't return until the middle of February.

[autumn]

Thanks for the suggestion.

Is it easy/possible to transfer money into someone's personal bank account in China from overseas?

If this is possible - I'm sure I could find a few things I would like to pay for in China.

Is there anybody in China who would be willing to help me out? (I'll transfer the money to you beforehand, of course)

[imron]

I'm sure it's possible, but it might be easier if you just find someone with a paypal account. You might want to pose the question in a new thread though so it's not buried under all the Wubi stuff.

[peterwelm]

I can help you.you may contact me.

[peterwelm]

I'm chinese,I think write down my thooughts by pinyin input method is more natural that other input methods.I'm one of authors of a chinse quan pin input method.if someone here want to use quan pin input method,you may ask me for it,it is free.

[imron]

Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering what level of wubi proficiency the chinese posters who said there's not need to learn wubi, managed to reach?

Personally I don't see how anyone who manages to achieve a reasonable level of proficiency at wubi would want to go back to another method. (For a native speaker, I would define 'reasonable' as say >60 cpm and no difficulty in knowing how to type any given character). But maybe that's just me.

Fast typing speed, unique character combinations (meaning you don't need to look at either the screen or the keyboard when you're typing), and a whole host of other benefits, make learning wubi seem like a no-brainer - equivalent to learning to touch-type in English.

The only disadvantage I can think of is the learning curve (which is not as great as many people seem to think it is) and for those who go on to learn this method properly, it's only a temporary thing anyway.

[peterwelm]

I learned wubi input method serveral years ago,what made me dislike it is that I had to stopped to think how to split some hanzi into etymon of wubi input method,which interrupt my thinking frquently.To use pinyin input method,one can easily input about 90 words per minute with tools such as ziguang,pinyin plus plus etc. pinyin input method.However,I'm using a full pinyin input method(全拼输入法 quan2 pin1 shu1 ru4 fa3) which is developed by myself.

[autumn]

I have only just started to learn 五笔 and it is incredibly difficult. Having said that I have absolutely no doubt that it will make typing in Chinese much faster and at the same time help me with my study of Chinese characters.

At the moment I am use the pinyin IME to type Chinese and although it works - it is quite slow. I find it annoying to have to scroll through lines of characters to find the one that I want.

Anyway I intend to master 五笔 and would like to hear from anyone else who went on to learn 五笔 after being confortable with another input method.

How long did it take before you felt that using 五笔 was saving you time rather than causing you frustration?

[elina]

I have not thought carefully if using wubi is helpful to foreigners’ learning Chinese. I myself use wubi and can get a speed of more than 85 cpm. But I do know that professional typists can reach a speed of more than 120 cpm, no matter it is through wubi or pinyin input method, which is just a habit used by an individual. So I think these two methods have no effect with the typing speed, if a person is very proficient on either of them. Using pinyin input method can also achieve 盲打 / typing without seeing the computer screen, but sure if one does not know the pronunciation of a Chinese character, he/she cannot input it with pinyin method.

How long did it take before you felt that using 五笔 was saving you time rather than causing you frustration?

It depends on how often you practise 五笔 every day. Of course, if you work harder, you can master it faster and better than others who do not.

[peterwelm]

autumn:

Maybe you use the default MS ime,don't you? Here,Most chinese are using pinyin input method with the function that can memorize the user's input history.So if you input more chinese words with such tools, it will be more easyly to input the same chinese words in the future.

[imron]

peterwelm> I listed 60cpm as the bare minimum I would consider for proficiency in wubi, not as what I think a fast typing speed is. This is the speed at which I would consider a native speaker able to make a valid judgment when comparing wubi to another typing method.

Elina mentioned professional typists reaching 120cpm (in both wubi and pinyin), and the website I initially starting learning wubi from http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~wicentow/wubixing.htmlI mentions typists using Wubi achieving speeds of over 160cpm.

You do make a valid point about having to stop and think about the breakdown of a character, but over time, and as proficiency increases, this problem goes away. I would also concede that Wubi falls down if you can't remember how to write a character, as looking up a character in the dictionary really causes your cpm to drop but this is also a problem that goes away over time as you start to remember these problem characters.

Another issue for native English speakers is this. When I started learning Chinese and was at a level where I would want to type it, I had already been touch-typing at reasonable speeds (>70wpm) in English for almost 10 years. In addition, I could happily type while looking at the letter/document that I was copying, with no need to look at either the keyboard or the screen.

So, when I started typing in Chinese with pinyin, there was a *massive* contrast. Not only was my speed considerably slower, but I also had to spend time looking at the screen and choosing characters etc. It was like trying to walk knee-deep through the mud as opposed to skiing downhill! Typing in pinyin can be good-enough for many people, but for those coming from a touch-typing background, it is far from ideal.

Anyway, yes there are predictive IMEs, but with these you still need to go back through and check what you write in case what the IME predicts is not what you wanted to say. There are also things that remember what you have typed before (such as 智能 ABC etc) but the advantages of this disappear, if you often make small changes what you write, or if you are typing in a style different from what you normally use.

Autumn> How fast you pick up Wubi will depend on how fast you can type in English, and on your level of Chinese. When I started learning Wubi, I could already touch-type in English and knew maybe 1500-2000 chinese characters. Using 五笔快打 it took me about a week or two to learn the basics (i.e. all the shapes/keys and the various rules for resolving conflicts) spending maybe 30mins a day practising. It took about another month or so before I used Wubi as my main input method (i.e. it had become faster than pinyin), and a few months after that before I was confident enough to remove the pinyin IME from the language bar (I used to keep it around for the characters that would leave me stumped). Good luck! And just remember that persistance will pay off.

[autumn]

Imron that is so great to hear. Actually I am in a pretty similar situation to the one you were in when you starting learning 五笔. My typing speed in English though is only about 60 wpm though and my accuracy isn't so great.

I'm definitely going to perservere with this and hopefully I'll have similar results.

[imron]

开天辟地学五笔 is another bit of software that's good at the beginning for learning the 字根, but it's not as good as 五笔快打 once you get beyond that level. It also has really annoying music. If you haven't already done so, reading that link I mentioned above http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~wicentow/wubixing.html is also useful.