Overseas Chinese Identity

[kristoffer]

hi there ive kinda just joined this forum so this is my 1st post..!

anyways.. just a lil Q..

im an Australian Born Chinese male and all my friends are either 1/4 or 1/2 asians or non asians.. and since i started uni the past year.. ive started meeting "real" chinese ppl.. i mean.. its all good and all, but i feel SO different to these chinese ppl.. i mean.. i shouldnt be after all i AM chinese...its just that they have interests, attitudes and lifestyles which are totally different and new to me..

so im sorta in a cultural clash here.. like i look chinese but absolutely dont act like one..i dunno who i am.. which is quite worrying..

anyways, is anyone in a similar situation as me.. or know someone who kinda is..?

chris

[adrianlondon]

It's common in the UK. A couple of my friends are BBC (British Born Chinese) and keep being asked, especially at this time of year, about Chinese customs and behaviour. One of them simply puts on his strongest London accent and says "fuck knows, mate" while downing his lager. It does irritate him.

[geraldc]

Join us, there's lots of us trying to figure out what we are here. Mainly BBCs, but a few ABCs too

[imron]

One part of the problem is that English doesn't really make the distinction between Chinese 中国人 and Chinese 华裔 unless you use long drawn out sentences. So you've grow up being Chinese (华裔), but now find that you're not Chinese (中国人). All along though, what you've really been is 澳大利亚人 - Australian.

Consider this: My father is English but I was born and raised in Australia. Though my mother is Australian her parents were also English, making me more or less English if you only look at my ancestry. The thing is though, having grown up in Australia, my thought patterns, beliefs and values are all Australian, and I see myself as Australian through and through. If you were to ask an English person what they thought, they would say the same thing (the accent being a dead giveaway ), as would anyone else who got to know me.

Now substitute English for Chinese in the above paragraph. What is the difference between my situation and yours, except for our parent's country of origin?

So, if you really want to classify yourself, and you were to ask me, I would say you're an Australian. Take pride in that, because it's not such a bad thing You don't need to forget or abandon your Chinese heritage because that's also a part of who you are, but to think of yourself as Chinese, or as somehow only part Australian is only going to end up leaving you feeling that you're missing something.

[geraldc]

A few years ago, a British politician, Lord Tebbit came up with the "cricket test". He thought that all immigrants should support the English team when playing international cricket. This was due to the fact Pakistani and Indian immigrants to the UK, would still support the Pakistani and Indian cricket teams rather than the English one. He felt that if you lived in a country you should support the local team. It was soon pointed out to him that there are millions of Scots, Welsh and Irish living in England, who would never support the English team at any sport.

As far as I'm concerned, nationality is a spectrum, it's not all or nothing. At one end is my British side, at the other end is my Chinese side. I basically spend my life moving between the 2 ends of the spectrum depending on the situation.

During the Olympics I'll support GB and China (and Hong Kong and Taiwan), then if they're knocked out, I'll support any contestant with a Chinese surname, so that includes Malaysia, Singapore etc, then any table tennis defectors etc. I have noticed that "Chinese" Chinese will just support China, whereas Overseas Chinese will support their country of residence, China, and then anyone with a vague hint of being linked to China

For what to call yourself in Chinese? I know some BBCs use the term 英籍华人. However when people in China ask me where I'm from, I find it easier just to tell my life story 我爸爸妈妈是香港人,可是我是在英国出生的 etc...as you know that's going to be their follow up question anyway, I let them decide what I am, it's no skin off my nose what they think of my nationality.

[yorkie_bear]

when you say you meet more Chinese, do you mean Australian-born, or from the mainland?

I'd be surprised if you didn't find some kind of connection with other ABCs. Wouldn't be surprised though if you found Chinese people who grew up in non-western environments to be very different from you...

I tend to agree with geraldC - although usually I feel more Chinese in the UK, and more British in China!

It's all a learning experience!

[carlo]

I think cultural identities are inherently flexible, so in this sense our 'identity' is equal to the sum of our social experiences. On the other hand, social identity is a two-way street, and what *you* think you are is only one half of the equation. So ironically people who are exposed to many cultures often end up feeling that they are half outsiders in all of them.

However it's not just the Overseas Chinese that experience this dilemma, but probably half of the world's migrant population. Historically speaking, 'cultural hybridity' has always been there. The important thing IMHO is for you to make the most of it, pick up as many languages as you can, and learn to see things from as many different angles as possible.

[HashiriKata]

So ironically people who are exposed to many cultures often end up feeling that they are half outsiders in all of them.

Well put, Carlo! Being a true cosmopolitan is fine on paper but a very lonely position to be in in real life. Being an ABC or BBC is still a thousand times better because you can at least still be labelled/ identified with.

[mr. fanglang]

I disagree. The flip side of feeling like a half outsider in many places is that you can also feel like a half insider in many different places, instead of just feeling you belong to only one. That's part of what the "global village" is about and i find it a blessing, not a curse. a source of inspiration, not a source of confusion. And you can find plenty of cohorts who are similar (i.e. of complicated backgrounds: born in one place, grew up in another, now working in yet another, etc) in places such as Hong Kong, New York, etc etc.

Why do we need labels to give us a sense of security/belonging anyway? you are who you are and shouldn't need any external elements to affirm that.

[goldie]

don't know how many of you have heard of the term, third culture kid. it's basically people who are born/brought up in cultures/countries which are different from their parents. this applies to a lot of people, not just BBCs or ABCs or British born Indians and so on. me and my brother are 3rd culture kids, my folks are Brits thru and thru but we were born/brought up in Taiwan. altho neither of us feel totally British or totally Taiwanese, we're somewhere in between, thus the 3rd culture. we've devised our own way of coping with the two cultures. there are books about this type of child/adult and the research throws some interesting angles on the 'typical' 3rd culture kid.

goldie

[muldersgun]

ah....another almost abc here. I came to australia when i was 6, of course i still have many memories of my childhood in shanghai, but i think, problem solve, talk like an aussie.

in primary school i shunned my chineseness, in high school i stopped shunning it but i didn't embrace it either, and i'm only slowly embracing it now that i'm at uni.

but i completely agree, most of my closest friends are all 3rd culture kids, 99% of them asian. I just think we all have this limbo state in common. Some are more asian than others but we all kind of sometimes feel torn between 2 worlds.

Then i meet some international students from china, i sometimes play basketball with them at uni. And its quite hard to get really really familiar with them, your entire background and upbringing and environment is so different.

take for example: the simpsons...the staple diet of any australian kid. Actual chinese people (those brought up in china) will never really get the humour. But simpsons references and quotes litter our generations language patterns like spots on a dalmation.

Sometimes its a great thing, because you can enjoy things which come with teh 2 cultures but so many times its so emotionally and psychologically conflicting. It's tough man but i don't blame my parents for immigrating to australia.

[kristoffer]

hey there..

Sorry bout the late reply.. but anyways...

I can totally agree with the 3rd culture kid idea, goldie.. but i call it a cultural clash..

okok.. heres my situation.. born and raised in australia to chinese parents but freinds are not chinese, but most with connections to asia.. i cannot write and read chinese.. but i am starting to learn it.. i can speak it but with an accent that totally identifies me as an outsider.. and because of this.. my extended family tends to look down on me..

Muldersgun, my current situation is so alike to yours... having just started uni, meeting people who have grown up with a similar upbringing was ment to be a great experience.. however theres just this massive difference between us ABCs and non-ABCs, a difference which is sometimes demoralising.. i mean.. why is it that i just feel i dont belong.. i should shouldnt i?

but yeh.. maybe i should just stop pretending and stick with the 3rd culture kids..

chris

[imron]

why is it that i just feel i dont belong.. i should shouldnt i?

Forgive me for sounding a little harsh, but no, you shouldn't. There is a big difference between being Chinese (i.e. from China) and being of Chinese descent. Your background and upbringing are completely different from theirs, and as such you have different ways of thinking, different values and a completely different view on life the universe and everything.

I don't know how much time if any you've spent in China, but you might want to consider living and working there for a year or so once you've finished uni. Doing this might help you see just how big these differences really are.

You shouldn't find this demoralising though, you just need to realise and accept that you're different from them, and that's completely ok because you've grown up in completely different societies. It's not just our genes that make up who we are, our surroundings and environment also play an important part.

[muldersgun]

chris...heheh yeah fobs are kinda taking over our unis

I think the main conflict with me is i don't really feel like i belong in Australia either. I mean i'm influenced enough by my chinese background that i don't think i can completely integrate myself in the 5th generation first settle white anglo-saxon side of australia. It just doesn't work, our backgrounds and cultural influences are so unalike too. Plus i absolutely LOATHE cricket.

So i don't feel i belong anywhere. Thats why so many of us 3rd culture kids just stick together (btw caucasians can also be included - immigrants etc) because we tend to get together and bitch about both cultures.

but perhaps i'm also more chinese than most abcs, becuase i did live in shanghai until i was 6. I speak accentless shanghainese, although my vocab is limited. My mando has a wierd shanghai/hk/tawiwan accent, but thats normal, i hardly ever speak it. and i''ve just recently restarted learning how to read and write.

[gato]

Yes, since your parents are Chinese culturally, you're bound to feel different from Australians who don't have that type of family environment, whether you grew up in Australia or not. Many people realizes at some point that they are more like their parents than they'd like to admit.

[imron]

Who's talking about completely integrating with the white-anglo saxon side of australia? To assume that only people of Anglo-saxon descent are somehow real Australians, or somehow more Australian than people from other backgrounds is divisive, and only leads to rifts within society (the recent race riots in Sydney are an extreme example of this problem).

Yes, our language, legal system, and many other facets of culture and society have been inherited from Britain, but take a walk down the main street of any major Australian city and you'll see that modern day Australia is no more anglo-saxon than it is greek or italian or chinese or vietnamese. If I think about my circle of friends from university it includes people from all of the above ethnicities, plus a couple of others (iranian and indian).

Also, if you look at statistics from the last census, you'll find that in Victoria (my home state) and NSW (the most populous state) you'll see that 1/3 of the population was born overseas, and 1/4 of the population speak a language other than English (I'm sure the figures would be quite similar for other states, but didn't bother to download the spreadsheets, and in any case these two states alone account for 1/2 of the Australian population). Also, these statistics in themselves don't show the full picture, as they don't take into account people born in Australia, and who are perhaps 2nd/3rd generation Australians of Chinese/Indian/Greek/insert ethnicity here/ descent, and only grew up speaking English and not the language of their parents.

So I don't expect anyone to completely integrate with the white-anglo saxon side of Australia, in the same way that I wouldn't expect myself to compeletely integrate with say the white-italian side of Australia (it'd never work, I LOATHE soccer ). And talking of sports, I'm from Melbourne but I don't particularly like Aussie Rules (practically a punishable offence down there) in part due to the influence of my (british) father who saw it as an abomination of true football - i.e. rugby . That doesn't make me less Australian though.

We all come from different backgrounds, and my point is, that even if you only hangout with other 3rd-culture kids from a similar background as your own you should still be able to see that as being Australian. Australia is still a relatively young country, and our culture and identity are still being defined. Don't be afraid to stand up and help define it as something other than just anglo-saxon.

[muldersgun]

hear hear imron

we're all australian in the end. I have citizenship papers to prove it

but what shits me is the whole describing anything different as "unaustralian". I wish that word would be banned from our lexicon.

what the hell is australian anyway? I hope it keeps getting better as 3rd + culture kids raise thermselves into prominent positions in society, e.g. politics/law/media. Then maybe we'd stop having this ridiculous division of ethnicities that we're getting from anglo-saxon australians feeling threatened or whatever.

[owshawng]

A friend of mine is an ABC (American Born Chinese). He told me that one of the difficulties of assimilating into a western country is that his family could have lived in the US for over 100 years, but when someone sees him, they think "Hey, look at this chinese guy walking down the street". He told me that caucasians don't have to deal with that kind of mentality in a predominantly white society.

[imron]

but what shits me is the whole describing anything different as "unaustralian". I wish that word would be banned from our lexicon

Surely you're not meaning to imply that the word "unaustralian" is..... unaustralian :mrgreen:

But seriously, I think the situation in Australia will only get better. For every anglo-saxon Australian who somehow feels threatened by people from other backgrounds there are just as many and more who aren't, and who enjoy the diversity of culture that exists in Australia today. This is only going to change for the better over the next few generations not only as more 3rd culture kids rise into positions of prominence, but also because cross-cultural relationships will start blurring the lines between different ethnicities, and because younger generations will have grown up around people from a diverse range of backgrounds. Speaking as an "anglo-saxon Aussie", I would find it silly to think of my non-anglo-saxon friends as somehow less Australian than I am.

Compared to other nations with large multi-culturalism, Australia is still young and still defining who and what it is, and this is something that will probably become more concrete over the next few generations. That's why it's important for people who have grown up in Australia to stand up and say this is who I am, and I'm Australian - regardless of what their background might be. As long as people see themselves as outsiders, they'll never have any hope finding a sense of belonging.

[imron]

A friend of mine is an ABC (American Born Chinese). He told me that one of the difficulties of assimilating into a western country is that his family could have lived in the US for over 100 years, but when someone sees him, they think "Hey, look at this chinese guy walking down the street"

And as long as he sees himself as an American Born Chinese how can other people be expected to think differently. Anyway, I understand that that being in that sort of situation would suck, but if you label yourself in one way then you can't expect to change other people's way of thinking.