Overseas Chinese Identity

[wai ming]

There's nothing wrong with being Australian-born Chinese (or American-born Chinese/CBC/BBC/XBC) and considering yourself as such. I have to disagree with Imron, people will often see someone as being Australian-born Chinese etc regardless of how the person sees his/herself. For example, a lot of the older generations and FOBs from mainland China, in particular, will label someone as "ABC" and differentiate such ABCs from themselves, often based on language and culture as manifested in hobbies, interests and attitudes and even clothing. I know of quite a few ABCs who only ever considered themselves as "Australian" until they met older migrants/FOBs who labelled them "ABC"s. I mean, who would call themselves a "banana" (how I hate that label ) of their own initiative? Most people would never think of it until someone of a more "pure" ( ) Chinese background challenged their self-perception.

I myself am a third-generation Australian-born Chinese, and I too used to feel left out of the Anglo-Saxon-Australian and FOB camps. To make things even more confusing, most ABCs I knew tended to either assimilate completely into the Anglo-Australian group or happened to be the type who spoke Cantonese/Mandarin/etc at home despite being fluent in English and who still went "home" overseas every summer vacation. Most couldn't read/write Chinese very well either, making me somewhat of an oddity (having learnt Mandarin as a second language to a reasonable (but nowhere near fluent)standard, and not being able to understand Cantonese at all). Moreover, although I am quite westernised in my opinions, I still retain some 'typically' Chinese attitudes; my Anglo-Australian friends could never understand why I didn't just do what I wanted and always worried about obeying my parents, for instance, or why I always worried what my parents would say about my exam results!

Strangely enough, in university, my friends are mainly Singaporean/Malaysian Chinese who are reasonably comfortable in English as well as Chinese, and who accept my somewhat 'westernised' attitudes along with my preference for Chinese music, badminton and steamboat and my erratic Mandarin!

At the end of the day, I think it's most important to accept yourself for who you are, and appreciate both sides of your culture, regardless of how people classify you. At the same time, you just have to accept the fact that people (white and Chinese/Asian) will almost always see you as Chinese/Asian no matter how you see yourself. And it's never too late to get more in touch with your Chinese side, if it bothers you.

[imron]

Carlo made an interesting point several posts back that social identity is a two-way street, and relies not just on how you perceive yourself, but also on how those around you see you, and I agree with that. The point I was trying to make in my previous post was more that if you don't see yourself as something, then there's a good chance the people around you won't see that either, and that if you call yourself Chinese then you can't be surprised if other people do that as well.

Consider though the difference in focus between say Australian Born Chinese and Australian of Chinese descent. The former makes a nicer acronym which probably helps for it's popularity, but it also adds to the confusion of people growing up thinking they're Chinese only to find out later that they are completely different from Chinese who come from China. Anyway, neither of these terms roll off the tongue as easily as "Australian", and I don't see why the term Australian has to be limited in scope to those from a "western" or anglo-saxon background when the reality of modern day Australia doesn't reflect that. Both of these terms also segregate and divide people along lines of "us and them" emphasising differences rather than things in common, which is ultimately not healthy for society (see recent race riots in Sydney).

Anyway, I don't really care what people call themselves, nor do I want people to associate less with or forget their background and heritage. I just think that the way people see themselves affects the way others see them, and also that it's important not just to accept yourself for who you are, but also to stand up and let others know what that is.

[kristoffer]

Hey guys/girls

Good to see my first ever post on a forum has such a popular following..!

I really appreciate all of your opinions, they are very, very intelligent ones

I would just like to say I herd a great quote once… it goes like this…

There are 3 types of YOU

The you that other people see you as

The you that you see you as

And the real you

I am an Australian Born Chinese and “there's nothing wrong with being Australian-born Chinese (or American-born Chinese/CBC/BBC/XBC)” it is only a “nametag” and it is not a true reflection of ME.

However, I still believe there is an unfortunate gap that divides us ABCs and non-ABCs or any other race for that matter, a gap that in my honest opinion will never be closed. Because in society the surface is all calm and steady, everyone gets along, but deep, deep down people are will always be classified, stereotyped and judged.

Being stuck in the middle kinda troubles me… but hey there’s a plenty of us.

There was a great saying I heard from the MAN himself, Bruce Lee (he too is a overseas (American) born Chinese). It goes like this…

“Under the heaven and stars man, there is all but one family; it just so happens, people are different”

Bruce is right.

Chris

[smalltownfart]

Now substitute English for Chinese in the above paragraph. What is the difference between my situation and yours, except for our parent's country of origin?

Imron, your comparison is laughable. The difference is, as a Chinese, he is a *visible* minority.

Sure, your parents will be easily distinguishable as being immigrants/poms from their accents and maybe other subtle clues, but as for yourself, since you underwent the full Aussie socialization experience, how can anyone make the distintion between you and someone whose family has been in Australia for 5 generations?

Can you make the same comparison between the American children of Irish immigrants vs the American children of Ethiopian refugees?

I spent 3 weeks in Adelaide 2 years ago, forgive me if I am not impressed with your country. A muslim colleague had to eat seafood basically the whole time, bcos we could only find a couple of halal/kosher restaurants in the whole city. And Adelaide is apparently one of the biggest cities in Australia. I remember also seeing dumbass Aussie louts physically harassing an Asian couple walking by on the street at night, in downtown Adelaide.

I can safely say you will never see the same kind of problems in Canada.

Kristoffer, I don't know how you were brought up, but if your parents are Chinese, I am sure you have more in common with other Chinese than you realize.

As a first-generation FOB immigrant in Canada, I have met many overseas-born Chinese immigrants, I am talking abt from all over Asia, Indochina, India, Africa and even from places you wouldn't expect, like Surinam. What does it mean to be Chinese?

There are all kinds of Chinese. At university, all the Taiwanese kids I knew would never hang around with the mainland students, kids from HK had their own cliques etc.

There is no single Chinese identity. In Singapore and Malaysia, for instance, the Chinese population used to be heavily fragmented into clans. This sounds ridiculous, but for example, there were education scholarship funds which were eligible to Hakka (客家) only or 福建-only etc.

I think one of the main things that binds us all is language. If you lose that, you will basically lose your basic link to your "Chinese-ness". But I don't think you shd feel lost just because you currently find it hard to relate or mix with Chinese FOBs.

[wai ming]

Sorry to pick on your post, smalltownfart, but Adelaide is definitely *not* one of the biggest cities in Australia, it's one of the smallest - I should know, I live there (Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane are the largest cities.) But I'm sorry that you didn't have such a pleasant experience there. I'd say that the stupid louts you saw are a small minority, if there is racism in Australia, I tend to think it's more an underlying thing - attitude, rather than open racism (Cronulla being an exception).

I agree with you that there is no single Chinese identity, but I'm not sure how closely language "binds" us to our culture. Certainly there is a significant connection, but I don't think that everyone who retains their language retains their "Chineseness" to the same extent, and not everyone who retains their "Chineseness" retains their language to the same extent. I know quite a few ABCs who didn't retain any of the language (or maybe just one or two words, but nothing significant enough to hold or even understand a conversation), but are still in touch with their families' more "Chinese" values and attitudes.

[roddy]

. . . I remember also seeing dumbass Aussie louts physically harassing an Asian couple walking by on the street at night, in downtown Adelaide.

It's hard not to let what we see personally inform our view of a country or its people, but it's still not wise to take what we see on any particular visit as representative. You could have been on a different street, seen something different and come away with a different impression.

I can safely say you will never see the same kind of problems in Canada.

You can't safely say that. There's one example copied and pasted here (it's still on the newspapers website, but pay only) which singlehandedly proves you wrong. You could perhaps compare the relative levels of problems in each country, but to do that you need to pull out surveys and statistics, not what you happened to see.

This is a very interesting discussion, but not one I'm really qualified to comment on - I was bought up in an virtually entirely white area, and now live in a virtually entirely Chinese one. So I'll shut up now

[gato]

I agree with you that there is no single Chinese identity, but I'm not sure how closely language "binds" us to our culture. Certainly there is a significant connection, but I don't think that everyone who retains their language retains their "Chineseness" to the same extent, and not everyone who retains their "Chineseness" retains their language to the same extent.

It's not the language. If there's any one thing that defines Chinese culture, it's Confucianism and all that flows from it. Though only a very small minority of Chinese have ever read the writings of Confucius and his disciples -- an even smaller minority today -- because Confucianism was the official ideology of the Chinese empire for thousands of years, his ideas on proper behavior and proper values infect almost every aspect of Chinese life, as well as life of people from countries that used to be dominated by China, such as Korea, Japan, and Vietnam. Even if you are an overseas Chinese who doesn't speak a lick of Chinese, you may still find yourself being influenced by it because your parents may very well be.

Physical appearances, of course, are still important. It's how of all us instinctly judge others, regardless of what we may be educated to believe. Despite Imron's idealism, there are still many people who hold stereotypical view about people who look different and may not be as warm to them or be as open to getting to them as they would of someone from their own background. But that shouldn't limit you. You can still live a fruitful life without them, and some day there will be more of you than them.

[imron]

Actually smalltownfart, it's quite easy for people to differentiate between me and someone who's say fifth generation Australian.

Though I'm of British descent, both my parents were converts to Islam before they were married, and as a result myself and my brothers and sisters grew up far differently from your typical anglo-saxon Australian.

Now, this might not be a visible difference, but thanks to a name like Imron, it's a difference that's noticeably there anytime I introduce myself or have to start interacting with people. There are also differences in customs and habits that crop up from time to time, for example it's not exactly easy trying to explain to other 8 year olds (or even other adults) why you don't eat pork, or why you're not eating anything during daylight hours this month. Btw, I can't speak for Adelaide, but growing up muslim in Melbourne (the second largest city in Australia), I never encountered the problems your friend did.

Anyway, all of this actually leads to another interesting phenomenon. Growing up at school, kids will see it as normal for children who are visibly different, or who speak a different language, to have "funny" names or strange customs, but try having those things when you're supposed to be "Australian". I can guarantee you it's not easy. At least people from other backgrounds had people they could relate to and associate with, but if you're in a position like I was, you don't fit in with other students who were Muslim (because you don't look like them, speak their language, or "come from their country"), and you don't fit in with the "normal" Australians either.

Now, despite my difference in upbringing, it doesn't change the fact that I am Australian. So, yes, while the original poster is going to be a visible minority, and while differences exist between us, my point is that there *shouldn't* be large differences in our situations because even though we've received influences from our backrounds and parents, we've both grown up in an Australian environment, received an Australian education, been exposed to Australian pop-culture and have been affected by various other things that will distinguish us from people from other countries. So you'll have to excuse me for disagreeing, because I don't think that this suggestion is so laughable (maybe a tad idealistic, but not laughable).

Unfortunately as long as people see someone of Chinese descent as "Chinese" (and I don't just mean to pick on Chinese here, because the same is true for other nationalities too), then there are going to be others telling that person to "go home" - and that's not something that should ever happen. Nor should the situation exist where someone who's grown up in Australia not be able to feel at home in their own country.

Anyway, the face of Australia is changing, and the term Australian encompasses a far broader range of people than just those of anglo-saxon descent. Australia is also a young country still in the process of defining itself, and personally i'd prefer to see it come together rather than split up and segregate itself into separate parts.

Anyway, I'm sorry that you had a bad experience in Australia, but it's really not that bad a place (actually Australia, Canada and one of the Scandanavian countries regularly top the list of best countries to live in).

[geraldc]

The overseas Chinese community is much more fragmented than people think. In the UK, most of us grew up in the catering trade, so you were never that friendly with the closest Chinese family to you, as they were generally your competition.

Even though most Chinese in the UK came from HK, there were still a number of different dialects, Cantonese, Hakka and other variations, so when people from my generation (first generation born in the UK) get together, often English is the only common language, which is lucky, as it's often the language we're most at ease with.

The Chinese immigration has also been in stages. From '60s onwards people started emigrating from HK (mainly from the New Territories) late '70s and '80s the Vietnamese-Chinese arrived, late '80s early '90s it was the professional Chinese from HK, then from the '90s onwards, more and more mainlanders have come over to study.

In the past, there was very little to draw us together, but now it's split between those who speak Cantonese, and those who speak Mandarin. Other than for shopping, it seems we rarely mix. A BBC entering university in the UK will often share some of the same cultural and language references a HK student entering the same university, but won't have anything in common with a mainland student, especially one from the North. Different language, different food and no common interests etc.

The one thing that draws us together is family.

[stBLCU]

It's an interesting topic! I am writing a papaer about this now, I argue that learning more chinese language and culture can help these XBC's form their identities. Do you agree with me? or do you have stories about this? Thank you for all in advance.

[calibre2001]

I'm not sure how it works in western society, but as far as chinese society is concerned, overseas 'chinese' is still 'chinese' in their eyes. And overseas chinese feel exactly the same way too. Hence the expected burden on overseas chinese (i.e. speaking the language, the culture etc) which you see being implied by the overseas chinese forumers here.