KMT flags in Nanjing

[bhchao]

How prevalent are KMT flags today in Nanjing? I heard that they are still hung in places around the city. Is this true?

[Ncao]

I heard it's hung at Sun Yat Sen burial place (not sure if it's true). But I thought the ROC flag was illegal on the mainland.

[skylee]

I was very surprised to see them on the walls (not really flags but the emblem) when I visited 中山陵 a few years ago. Didn't take any photos as it was not allowed. Some photos here and here.

[skylee]

Oh but I did take this one.

[Ian_Lee]

There are many KMT emblems and ROC flags on Mainland.

For KMT emblems, other than what you can find it in Nanjing (I think other than Sun's burial place, you can also find it in the former Presidential Palace -- which now has been transformed into Nanjing's City government (I believe). Last time Lien Chan stopped by there and left his autograph.

In Guangzhou, there are a lot of KMT emblems in the 72-Martyrs burial place. During the Cultural Revolution, they were desecrated. But late it was restored and funded by Guangzhou government.

If you have read Pazu's travel journal, there are ROC flags at Yunnan's soldiers' cemetery.

[Ncao]

If ROC flags and emblems are not illegal on the mainland, then why is the ROC national anthem illegal. Taiwanese singer 張惠妹 got blacklisted by Beijing because she sang the ROC anthem at Chen Shui Bien presidential inauguration ceremony. Or did she get blacklisted because she sang at the inauguration and not because of the anthem ?

[roddy]

I doubt that happened by any legal process. More likely some official somewhere saw it and realised how he could make himself look busy by proclaiming her persona non grata. If singing the ROC anthem is illegal (and I guess Beijing's jurisdiction over Taiwan could be a sticking point) then they should have demanded her immediate trial, surely.

Is the ROC flag actually illegal? I doubt it is specifically referred to anywhere, as Chinese laws, particularly 'political' laws, tend to be very vaguely worded so they can be interpreted to suit the interpreter.

[Ncao]

Another thing I find interesting it's that Sun Yat Sen is also considered a national revolutionary hero (although not as important as Mao or Deng Xiao Ping).I wonder if it's because his widow Song Qing Ling stayed after 1949 instead of going to Taiwan.

[chenpv]

I am not a pundit in Taiwan issue but could anybody explain to me: are KMT flag and the so-called ROC flag the same stuff? I am sorry for my ignorance but I AM perplexed by this whole thread, since I kind of got an idea (probably wrong?) that:

KMT flag is legal =====> 'ROC flag' is legal =======>why is 'ROC anthem ILLEGAL?'

I doubt I can figure out the logic in it.

PS: I just want to say there are a lot lot lot lot of things related to KMT in Wuhan University. and you will see this http://xyds.xunyang.com.cn/tnews/file/2005425105462.JPG next to Mao Zedong's in 黄帝陵。

[Ncao]

Yes the KMT and ROC flags are the same flag.

[chenpv]

Yes the KMT and ROC flags are the same flag.

What a jerk.........What a pity..........

[Ncao]

What a jerk.........What a pity..........

Uh!? You asked if the KMT and ROC flag is the same thing.

[Ian_Lee]

KMT and ROC flags are not the same.

KMT flag has only Blue Sun and White Sky while ROC flag has the red background (I think the red background was only added after 1927 to memorize all those martyrs dying during the Northern Expedition against the warlords).

[Ian_Lee]

For Sun Yat Sen, the label that each side gives is also different.

Taiwan calls Sun the "Nation's Father" while Mainland calls him "Pioneer of Democratic Revolution".

However, interestingly most overseas media (including those in HK) as well as most Mainlanders outside PRC also call Sun as "Nation's Father".

[Lu]

KMT and ROC flags are not the same, as Ian Lee says, but they are almost the same. Last year Chen Shuibian asked the KMT to change their flag, because of the unfair advantage it gave them in elections (KMT flag = ROC flag => KMT = ROC, that thought). They didn't change it (of course).

[chenpv]

Uh!? You asked if the KMT and ROC flag is the same thing.

Sorry, don't take it personally. My bad, I didnt make myself clear in my 9th post, which unfortunately misled your 10th post.

Taiwan calls Sun the "Nation's Father" while Mainland calls him "Pioneer of Democratic Revolution".

Last year Chen Shuibian asked the KMT to change their flag' date=' because of the unfair advantage it gave them in elections[/quote']

Interesting stuff. Could you please tell me about it？Any links to share? Thank you in advance.

[HashiriKata]

Another thing I find interesting it's that Sun Yat Sen is also considered a national revolutionary hero (although not as important as Mao or Deng Xiao Ping).I wonder if it's because his widow Song Qing Ling stayed after 1949 instead of going to Taiwan.

I don't think it is because of Song Qing Ling's staying behind, but because both Mao and Chiang were both Sun's pupils. (This is from what I heard but it could be wrong, as I'm normally out of touch with politics ).

[Ncao]

How could Mao be Sun's pupil? I thought Mao had always been a communist? I never heard of him being with the KMT.

[Ian_Lee]

Sun Yat Sen is an indispensible icon in the Communist Revolution (even more important than Mao).

It is related to whether CCP were revolutionaries or bandits.

According to the official CCP way of interpretation:

In 1927, Chiang Kai Shek stole the revolution by massacring tens of thousands of dual KMT/CCP members. Mme Sun was the best witness since she sided with CCP and openly quarrelled with Chiang. So it was CCP which inherited Sun's will and succeeded and deepened the revolution.

So CCP were the revolutionaries while Chiang and his KMT were downgraded to another type of warlord.

But according to the official KMT way of interpretation:

In 1927, it was CCP which aimed to sabotage the revolution by colluding with USSR advisers and engaged in all kinds of "Red" activities like land reform with public trial of landowners and massive strke of railway workers etc.

So it was Chiang who saved the revolution and succeeded Sun's wish and purified KMT while CCP were the bandits.

Interestingly by that time even foreign powers could not tell what really happened between KMT and CCP. That is why US and British battleships were on full alert when Chiang's troop entered Shanghai in 1927.

So whom did Sun consider the true revolutionaries and his genuine successors? Chiang or CCP? I guess during Sun's last years in Guangzhou, he was playing balance of power like Mao did in his last years.

[Lu]

Interesting stuff. Could you please tell me about it？Any links to share? Thank you in advance.

Sorry, I don't have any links or anything on this... I just seem to remember reading it somewhere, must have been in 2004-5 'cause that's when I was living in Taiwan. Maybe during the lifayuan elections?

DPP and KMT are always struggling, trying to get the better of the other and to piss the other off. Whatever one does, the other will scream how bad it is. This was just another one of those actions, A-bian asking the KMT to change their flag and symbol because it is (almost) the same as the "national" flag. He can't have believed even for one second that they might really change it.