Couple of 中文角 questions

[roddy]

Would like to ask people's opinions on these matters . . .

1) With the 中文角, do you think I should restrict discussion to one character set, or should I just let people use what they want. I'm inclined to make it simplified only, because that's what the majority of people on here use and it will make life a bit simpler (not least for me). Bear in mind that we can very easily link to a traditional simplified convertor for people who aren't happy with this.

2) We're already seeing instances of people asking grammar / vocabulary questions in Chinese, in the topics. For me this is a problem, as it means a lot of linguistic discussion is going to end up in Chinese, rather than English, and as such be less accessible to learners. I am very keen to keep linguistic stuff mainly in English, as that fundamentally is what this board is about - discussion of Chinese, in English. The 中文角 is for practicing it, not learning it. I'd like to ask that people start separate topics, in English, in the main sections of the board, about linguistic issues arising from 中文角 topics.

Thoughts?

Roddy

[skylee]

Re 1. People should be allowed to write in the script of their choice. The right/preference of the minority should not be denied.

[geraldc]

I agree that grammar questions should be in English. I guess most of us found this place through doing a net search in English and not in Chinese, if we start using too much Chinese to discuss language issues the site may become harder for people to find.

Perhaps there should be simplified and tradtional sections to Chinese corner?

[gougou]

ad 1) Personally, I'd be fine with a simplified-only policy (that is, if I ever muster the courage to participate ) However, judging by the discussions we had about simplified/traditional characters, traditional still enjoys a wife following. I'd be careful about banishing it - the convertors are accesible to people who read simplified as well, after all. (Plus, if it wasn't for the odd article in traditional that crops up in this forum, my knowledge of traditional characters would most likely tend to zero!)

ad 2) This is a valid point. However, I wonder whether the few questions about Chinese grammar discussed in Chinese are valuable for a learner who doesn't understand the Chinese around them yet? It seems that many questions are rather specific and not what a beginner is looking for who hasn't even got 了 under his belt (who can always turn to the world-famous All "Simple," yet confusing grammar rules.)

Anyway, I think the amount of questions in Chinese is minute, if something truly valuable should come up, it could still be added to above-mentioned sticky.

[elina]

Re 1. People should be allowed to write in the script of their choice. The right/preference of the minority should not be denied.

I second Skylee, it’s fair and reasonable. For those who are not familiar to traditional or simplified Chinese, they should do the convertor themselves. Anyway, it’s an easy thing.

The 中文角 is for practicing it, not learning it. I'd like to ask that people start separate topics, in English, in the main sections of the board, about linguistic issues arising from 中文角 topics.

That’s a good idea.

[roddy]

Thanks for the feedback so far folks, appreciated.

Ok, on simplified / traditional - I'll declare a 'preference' for simplified, but won't yell at anyone for using traditional.

On discussion of language issues - the more I think about it, the wiser it seems to keep this seperate, and in English. It'll make it easier to find (ie, it won't be buried on page 5 of a 12 page discussion titled 你吃了吗？) and it solves the problem of those who can't yet quickly scan Chinese text getting three sentences in to a paragraph to discover it's not about dinner, it's about the 把 construction. This might be where our moderator (nipponman, unless he's resigned and not told me) will come in, I think . . .

Any more thoughts? To be honest the above is all open to negotiation. Perhaps we should just let it run for a while and see what happens. I don't want to get all centralized if I don't have to

Edit: Any thought on other guidelines to ensure it stays learner friendly? A length limit? Chengyu restrictions?

Roddy

[semantic nuance]

Hi,

Sorry if this quesiton is too stupid. What and where is 中文角? Please fill me in.

[roddy]

It's here, you should be able to see it listed here under 'Extras' and it was discussed at great length here.

If you can't get access to it let me know - there may be a permissions issue, though there's nothing in your usergroup memberships that should cause any problems.

Just to make clear - that forum, along with a small numbers of others - is not accessible to recently joined members, or members with very few posts. If you can't see it that's the reason. If you think there's an error, post here

[semantic nuance]

Thanks, roddy! I can see it now.

[PollyWaffle]

i agree with skylee, post in whatever u like... i prefer simplified but people should be able to read both anyway..

[elina]

Any thought on other guidelines to ensure it stays learner friendly? A length limit? Chengyu restrictions?

I think it may be better to advise people to try to decrease the length of their sentences, but not the posts, otherwise, they might not know how to express their complete meaning. For the Chengyu, I think they can be used in 中文角. It’s a good thing for Chinese learners to see how the 鲜活的 / vivid Chengyu is used in daily dialogues. But if you like, you may suggest people to give the English translation or PINYIN at the same time with the Chengyu.

[wushijiao]

1) I think simplified is fine with me. But then again, I think I can pretty much read traditional, albiet a lot slower. Personally, I think the difference between the two is a bit over-hyped.

2) I was wondering if the 中文角's focus would be more A) grammar and writing skills, or B) just writing and discussing about issues in Chinese?

In any case, I agree that grammar would be best explained in English outside of the 中文角 section.

[HashiriKata]

I wonder why 中文角 is not within Learning Chinese group but is in Extras and needs to be "hidden"? It looks to me it belongs more logically to the former. Sorry if the rationals for this have been mentioned elsewhere.

[BFC_Peter]

Just about everyone should benefit the more people that are attracted here so I'd suggest applying as few restrictions as you can, even though what you're suggesting would be of most benefit to people like myself - english-speakers learning chinese and with only basic proficiency in chinese (for example I only recognise the first two characters in the thread title ).

If someone chooses to write a message using traditional characters then they should be reminded they are probably reducing significantly their target audience but that may well be their intention.

While it's reasonable to let people know that more admin work may be required (if that was your point about making life simpler) I would still argue for including both simplified and traditional - even though that may exclude me from the discussion. But, I agree with you about stating a preference for simplified.

I would argue similarly against mandating the use of English but again would state it as a preference.

I think most of these issues are basic writing issues - if you want more people to read your posts then you have to make them interesting/easy to read/accessible etc. to as many people as possible - not something that's going to be so easy to teach as I now demonstrate!

Roddy - do you know how the forum membership breaks down in terms of chinese proficiency?

[roddy]

I've made it publically viewable and moved it up to the Learning Chinese category to see how that works.

Roddy - do you know how the forum membership breaks down in terms of chinese proficiency?

No I don't. Someone should start a poll . . .

Now go and get posting

Roddy

[geraldc]

If you encouraged everyone who posted in Chinese corner to use the adso pop ups, it would help beginners (well it would help them realise that Chinese sentances have a different sentance structure to English anyway).

[roddy]

True. Does anyone want to write up a 'Beginner's Guide' to that section, based on what we've discussed in here and in the original topic? I've got (paying!) work to do today

[carlo]

I think there are roughly three reasons to join 中文角:

1) Looking for corrections and suggestions from native speakers. These are extremely helpful, however if every discussion turns into a spelling bee contest, things may get out of hand. Maybe threads or posts could be marked 'for correction', or posters could explicitly ask native speakers for help.

2) Just willing to chat away, without worrying too much about the fine points of diction. I think these people should be encouraged to partecipate, otherwise the project won't last long and most non-natives will drop out. The idea should be that anything goes as long as mistakes don't prevent people from understanding you (pretty much like the English forums here, many of us are also non-native speakers of English) - the main objective is to encourage meaningful communication using Chinese.

3) Looking for translations and/or definitions of words being used by others (like chengyu): a thread could be started in the English language forum. I don't see the need of simplifying the language (I don't think native speakers really know what is easy and what is not from a learner's perspective anyway).

[HashiriKata]

Thanks Roddy, it's nice to see 中文角 within "Learning Chinese", which lets the puplic see that we do put what we've learned into practice . I'm sure once many learners like me have got used to reading and writing Chinese on the fly, 中文角 will be a popular place for all (I'm at the moment still (yes, still ) at the reading stage of what's been posted there).

[roddy]

Been running for about a week now - any comments?

Does anyone want to write up a 'Beginner's Guide' to that section, based on what we've discussed in here and in the original topic?

*cough cough*