鹏，凤

[kudra]

鹏，凤 --- peng2, feng4

In zhongwen.com these are both translated as phoenix. NJStar shows 鹏 as roc, which I had to look up in www.m-w.com

pronounced same as rock, in English with the definition

roc: a legendary bird of great size and strength believed to inhabit the Indian Ocean area.

Etymology: Arabic rukhkh

There is the Chengyu 鵬程萬里, as in 學業進步鵬程萬里 (学业进步鹏程万里).

So my question:

1.) is there really a correspondence between the arabic rukhkh and 鹏? Or is the translation Roc, as 鹏 just convenience because both are huge legendary birds capable of long flights?

2.) If they are actually related, is the story originally from China or from Arabic tradition?

After googling around for a few minutes, it looks like there are references to Roc in the Tales of The Arabian Nights.

Any experts out there?

[chenpv]

北冥有鱼，其名为鲲。鲲之大，不知其几千里也。化而为鸟，其名为鹏。鹏之背，不知其几千里也；怒而飞，其翼若垂天之云。是鸟也，海运则将徙于南冥。南冥者，天池也。《齐谐》者，志怪者也。《谐》之言曰：“鹏之徙于南冥也，水击三千里，抟扶摇而上者九万里，去以六月息者也。”---------------《庄子》

you can also try 《山海经》if you want to know other legendary creatures.

PS: The internet speed here got so movingly great that I had to wait for only 10 minutes to open a single webpage with enabling all the download blockage functions.

[chenpv]

北冥有鱼，其名为鲲。鲲之大，不知其几千里也。化而为鸟，其名为鹏。鹏之背，不知其几千里也；怒而飞，其翼若垂天之云。是鸟也，海运则将徙于南冥。南冥者，天池也。《齐谐》者，志怪者也。《谐》之言曰：“鹏之徙于南冥也，水击三千里，抟扶摇而上者九万里，去以六月息者也。"

The Modern Chinese translation is accquired from here: http://www.phclass.com/zztrans.htm

北方的大海里有一条鱼，它的名字叫做鲲。鲲的体积，真不知道大到几千里；变化成为鸟，它的名字就叫鹏。鹏的脊背，真不知道长到几千里；当它奋起而飞的时候，那展开的双翅就像天边的云。这只鹏鸟呀，随着海上汹涌的波涛迁徙到南方的大海。南方的大海是个天然的大池。《齐谐》是一部专门记载怪异事情的书，这本书上记载说：“鹏鸟迁徙到南方的大海，翅膀拍击水面激起三千里的波涛，海面上急骤的狂风盘旋而上直冲九万里高空，离开北方的大海用了六个月的时间方才停歇下来”。

The English translation is here (sorry, but my English sucks.)

In the sea in the North lives a fish, whose name is Kun. Kun is so gigantic that the length of its body measures to some unknown thousand lis. (At a time), Kun transforms into a bird and it is then called Peng. The back of Peng is so wide that the length of it measures to some unknown thousand lis. Once Peng is roused to the sky, its wings stretches as if they were huge clouds drifting as far as to the horizon. My holy bird, overpassing the surging billows (all the way), migrates to the sea in the South, where it is called the divine sea. 《Qixie》is a compilation of legendaries, in which it says: 'when Peng finally gets to the divine sea, its wings beat up billows up to three thousand lis' high, and beat up squalls swirling 90 thousand lis up to heaven. Peng spent six months migrating from the north to the finally perch in the south.'

[kudra]

Chenpv

thanks. I was a bit confused when I tried to make sense of the original passage when I cut and pasted it into adsotrans.

And I don't think your translation sucks. Perhaps not polished, but it conveys alot. Obviously, there are many ways to say things. Assuming you are not doing a particular translation for cash, I actually prefer a rough translation so I don't come away with assumptions about style and tone.

We can't all be John Ciardi, although I suppose for pros, it can't hurt to try.

[roddy]

The roc certainly never started as a fish (hatches from eggs, i think I saw it in Sinbad the Sailor ), so I guess there's no connection. The 鹏 sounds almost like a creation myth.

However, apparently Marco Polo also reported rocs - not in China though.