A primer on simple Chinese grammar (work in progress)

[HashiriKata]

I would guess that the first sentence doesn't need the 再, but the second one does need it.

You're right, the 再 above makes the meaning of the sentence a bit more specific/ more temporary. But on the whole, the presence of 再 itself does not make a vast difference in this "no more/ no longer" type of sentences, so speakers' habit may also play a part in its presence/absence. For example, you've been discussing something with a friend but for some reason, you decide to shut up. In that case, it doesn't make any difference which of the following sentences you'd use:

我不说了。

我不再说了。

Edited July 17, 2009 at 06:36 AM by HashiriKata

[blaketx]

Thanks for the responses. Much appreciated.

[Yelrihs36]

I have a question: How do you say "I will read more books" (in future)?

Does this make sense: (以后) 我会读更多/我会多读书

[Ness]

I think this is an appropriate place to pose all of my grammar questions, as it what I think I struggle with the most other than tones.

I've been trying to keep in mind this basic structure I was taught while learning a little Chinese under a teacher in school:

subject verb object particle

Which can be expanded upon into this I think:

adj (time) + subject adverb verb adj + object particle

I still strugle with this basic concept though becauase even in English I'm not that familiar with grammatical terms beyond noun, verb, or adjective.

I've learned that in a really basic form of Chinese word order the subject comes first and then the predicate. So I'm curious if I take a simple sentence like "Do you know where my dog is?" and translate it, what comes first? Does it go something like this:

你 知道 我 的 狗 在 那?

Or would it be something like:

我 的 狗 你 知道 在 那?

I just want to make sure I'm heading in the right direction. I know that the interrogative pronoun (那) should come last, but I'm just not sure about the previous part of the sentence. I'm learning a good amount of characters now so I'm hoping as I continue studying that grammar order will be easier to identify. Hopefully.

[SiMaKe]

Assuming the 那 is a typo (should be 哪儿), your basic sentence is a double interrogative. One form for this type of question is

你知道我的狗在哪儿吗？

And like in English, if the answer is no then the response would be 我不知道.

If the answer is known then the response would be something like 你的狗在客厅里.

@26 my typo corrected 我->你。

[Ness]

Thanks for the correction. Still I'm confused about something. I asked for a translation of "Do you know where my dog is?"

What would it look like if you utilized the 你 within the context of the sentence? How would it look? Unless that 我 in the beginning of your example you showed me is a typo you made yourself that is supposed to be a 你.

Really the example isn't that important. What's important is how to tell what is the subject in a sentence and what comes first. Would the "my dog" start the setence off first or the "Do you know" aspect? Or do both work? I'm guessing it's the first example I put which is similar to your corrected sentence you proposed to me.

[anonymoose]

你知道我的狗在哪里吗？ Do you know where my dog is?

我的狗你知道在哪里吗？ My dog, do you know where it is?

Both are OK, but I think the former sounds a lot more natural than the latter. Remember, though, that in real life, people don't always talk in full sentences. One could also conceivably say something like 我的狗啊，在哪里，你知道吗？

[Ness]

Thanks I appreciatei it. And do I even need to add the 嗎 at the end? Since 哪里 is an intrregotative pronoun I shouldn't need to add 嗎 right?

[li3wei1]

You do need it, otherwise there'd be no difference between these sentences:

You know where my dog is.

Do you know where my dog is?

哪里 can be used in non-interrogative sentences.

[anonymoose]

Thanks I appreciatei it. And do I even need to add the 嗎 at the end? Since 哪里 is an intrregotative pronoun I shouldn't need to add 嗎 right?

Yes, because the question is "DO YOU KNOW where my dog is?", and not "Where is my dog?". In other words, the former question isn't asking where the dog is, but rather whether the person knows or doesn't know. If you just want to ask "Where is my dog?", then it would be 我的狗在哪里？

[Ness]

Okay I think I understand a little better now. Thanks for the help.

[Ness]

Here is another basic structure I'd like to try and sort out. How about this simple sentence: "Do you know what you want?"

I can't figure how it would usually go when asked. My best guess is:

你 知道 你 要 什麼 嗎?

Is that even close? I'm not even certain how the subject order would go. I'm guessing I can use 你 知道 as the main subject and then the rest follows as the predicate, but I don't know. 要 should qualify as a basic verb, but shouldn't 知道 as well? So which goes first? I'm also not sure which in the predicate would be the object either.

[陳德聰]

O_O

I think you are really confusing yourself with grammatical terms. I'm not quite sure you are fully aware of what "subject" means...

If you take the standard pattern S + V + X and use that, you shouldn't have much trouble with simple sentences, and even this one you can use the same framework:

S + V + (S + V + X) etc.

You + Know + (My Dog + Is + Where)?

You + Know + (You + Want + What)?

And so on and so on.

[Ness]

What in the world does the X stand for?

[陳德聰]

It's a variable, because a lot of stuff can go there.

I would put O, but then I'd have to explain why a clause can be an object and I just assumed that would probably go a bit above the necessity of what we're discussing.

[Ness]

Another question.

Is there a reason why some words with their actual tones together lose a tone when combined? Take duo1 shao3 (多少) for instance. In the book I'm currently studying and a couple of online dictionary sites I've been to I've seen it spelled as duo1 shao ommitting the following tone on the second sylable. Is it just me or is there a reason for this? Are there two different meanings? I'm not sure when saying the entire word how I should pronounce it.

[陳德聰]

I just tried saying a bunch of sentences to myself over and over to see what it sounded like...

There is no difference in meaning as far as I can tell... But in mainland China, it's more common to have this sort of tone-dropping thing go on. I don't think there's a special rule that says "all these words will lose the tone in the second syllable when combined", but it's kind of just a colloquial speaking thing.

Might just be me, but duōshao and duōshǎo actually sound kind of similar.

[skylee]

Duo2 for 多 also seems quite common.

PS - relevant threads here and here.

[roddy]

Closing this, as the original post isn't being maintained and we don't need a dump for grammar questions - post a new topic, with a specific title. After you've searched and checked your grammar book.

Looking 多少 up in a good dictionary will also help...