Pimsleur

[RobAnt]

Does anyone know if someone has done a transcript in Pinyin and Simplified Characters of the Pimsleur courses?

It would be really helpful to me because I have the L1 course (16 CDs), but I would also like to be able to chat on-line to a friend in China who can help me.

So I go through the lessons, but when I discuss it with her I am just typing in what I hear phonetically - which is complete nonesense to her, mostly (although she's very bright and usually catches on very quickly).

I just want to marry up the Pinyin with what I hear, and then choose the correct simplified character. (How come there are so many different interpretations ?)

[snarfer]

I think there is some such thing. Search the forums. However, don't you think that trying to use Pimsleur to learn written Chinese kind of defeats the purpose of Pimsleur? I mean, you could just get any old Chinese textbook and it would teach you these very same words. Also, since you are chatting with your friend over the Internet and you have, presumably, learned some spoken Chinese, why don't you just use one of the many voice chat services instead - skype, yahoo, gizmo, etc... Then you wouldn't need a transcript.

[onebir]

...according to this post they're here: www.ezmandarin.com. "It's free, but you need to register."

[RobAnt]

Thanks Onebir, I've registered on EZMandarin, and no doubt I'll get a response in due course.

I'm sure they'll be a tremendous help.

[RobAnt]

I think there is some such thing. Search the forums. However, don't you think that trying to use Pimsleur to learn written Chinese kind of defeats the purpose of Pimsleur? I mean, you could just get any old Chinese textbook and it would teach you these very same words. Also, since you are chatting with your friend over the Internet and you have, presumably, learned some spoken Chinese, why don't you just use one of the many voice chat services instead - skype, yahoo, gizmo, etc... Then you wouldn't need a transcript.

Thanks, unfortunately, she is at work most of the time, and cannot speak out loud, or wear a headset. The only chance we get to use audio is at the weekend. (sh)

So while I'm primarily learning to SPEAK chinese, and have already committed to the Pimsleur system financially I have recently discovered (from this forum) how to type Pinyin and produce Chinese Simplified Characters from that - hence my desire to at least learn to use that method of communication. We can then check my pronunciation at the weekends.

I'm sure it'll also deepen my whole learning Chinese experience.

[zenwizard]

I have been using Pimsleur as well. Try this thread: http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/7511-pimsleur-mandarin-ii-vocabulary

I also have a file called chinese.mdb, here, which your welcome to, if you want.

http://members.cox.net/jam31988/update.zip

[kudra]

Anybody notice that in the approximately 4th dialog, the non-native speaker is complimented on how good his putonghua is, and his response is xie xie, not nali?

For fun I got out the Pimsleur Spanish from the local library. Turns out the intro dialogs are pretty much exactly the same, guys trying to make conversation with non-English speaking women. It's like they focused on the marketing niche and wrote the applicable conversations in English, then translated into Chinese or Spanish depending on the course.

So, my question is how bad is it to answer

"keshi nide putong hua shuo de hen hao." with xie xie, as opposed to something more idiomatic like nali? Or shoud I say, how much better, if at all, is it to answer with nali?

Note to parents and educators: Actually I got both of these (Chinese and Spanish) for my 7 yr old. She did kind of get into them during a longish car trip. It was quite cool to understand her as she repeated the Chinese phrases from the back seat. She was listening on an ipod, so I did not hear the native speaker cues. I wouldn't call it a HUGE success but I want to point out, possibly to any educators thinking about designing Chinese courses for laowai kids, that young kids can be motivated other than by the "fun" "learning made easy" "video game like" approach. The point is she knew it was from a "grown up" course, she could tell that I could understand her when she was saying stuff in Chinese. I'm guessing, not being a child psychologist, these are huge motivators.

From looking at the kids market (where the parents aren't native Mandarin speakers), it looks like there is a pretty big (and affluent) market for parents who've adopted girls from China. Courses with material that hold the interest of both the kids and the adults would sell like crazy.

[snarfer]

RobAnt:

I see what you mean. I actually learned a lot by sending Chinese SMS myself. It's a good way to learn colloquial Chinese.

[RobAnt]

ZenWizard, 斜斜 That's pretty much what I was looking for, what a great link leading to the Pimsleur transcript。

Up until now, I thought "hen" was "ren" (very) - sometimes reading something can help.

(I know it actually has a gutteral start in reality - a sort of mixed h/r - but it has still helped)

Note to self : must learn what number relates to what tone!

[kudra]

So I go through the lessons, but when I discuss it with her I am just typing in what I hear phonetically - which is complete nonesense to her, mostly (although she's very bright and usually catches on very quickly).

I just want to marry up the Pinyin with what I hear, and then choose the correct simplified character. (How come there are so many different interpretations ?)

...

So while I'm primarily learning to SPEAK chinese, and have already committed to the Pimsleur system financially I have recently discovered (from this forum) how to type Pinyin and produce Chinese Simplified Characters from that - hence my desire to at least learn to use that method of communication. We can then check my pronunciation at the weekends.

...

Note to self : must learn what number relates to what tone!

RobAnt

Let me see if I understand you. You are doing a language exchange. During the weekday you are sending text in simplified chinese characters to your language partner, but you weren't sure what character went with the sounds you were hearing, so you what ...? Picked one at random from the list provided when you typed in the pinyin? In other words, "the complete nonsense" your partner was seeing was this stream of simplified characters, not your pinyin right?

I think you need to step back and research a bit about learning Chinese as a second language. It is probably none of my business(except to the extent that your post makes it everybody's business), but the approach you are taking now seems like it will lead you round in circles and down blind alleys, without getting to some important reference points along the way to learning Mandarin.

There are numerous posts about learning strategies, my apologies if you already read them or were starting or contributing them.

[johnmck]

If you know the pinyin but do not know the character, this link will help you type:

http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/webime2.php?ime=mand_eng_simp

John.

[RobAnt]

Kudra,

It's okay now, the transcripts have resolved the problem I was having, and I'm now learning the Pinyin as I learn the audio (when it is convenient amd safe to listen and read simultaneously, of course).

And, of course, you're right, that's exactly whatn I did. I stepped back, and sought assistance to resolve my probem. Everyone has been most helpful.

谢谢你 - everybody!

Unfortunately, no response from EZMandarin yet

[anticks]

I started using Pimsleur a couple of days ago. I think its really good. My girlfriend is chinese and weve been together a year or so and ive been to dinners and things with her friends where alot of mandarin is spoken. I think its enabled me to pick up on how the language sounds and the feel of it a little and also a couple of words and phrases over the past year.

Ive gotten to Mandarin I - unit 7 in about 4-5 days and i found that when i went out to lunch today i was understanding certain things. I was picking up wo, ni, ta, shi, bu shi, bu xiang and a few other things quite easily. Especially when the girls spoke. For some reason they where alot slower clearer than some guys there.

My plan right now is to learn to speak and learn pinyin, and then delve into the writing further down the track (in about a year perhaps). In order to do this im going to go through pimsleur 1, 2, 3, read the transcripts talk to my girl, watch some mandarin movies shes got, and work on tones in words (whether i know the meaning or not) eg: ta1, ta2, ta3, ta - ma1, ma2, ma3, ma4, ni1, ni2, ni3, ni4...and just think about tones alot and say them out loud alot. I read somewhere here that drilling tones isnt a good idea??

The advice i got from some mandarin speaking friends is to just repeat repeat tones with same tones different words, and same words different tones. (i know technically that doesnt make sense since if its a different word if the tones different but i hope you get what i mean)..eg: ta1, ta2, ta3, ta4... shen2, hui2, ma2, cha2

Is there any advice anyone could give me? Would i be on the right track with my ideas, for the outcome that i want (speaking and pinyin first, writing later).

How fast have people here gotten through pimsleur 1-3? Im predicting about 5-6 months for me at this rate. Whats the learning curve like? im liking the pace alot so far, feels like im reading a good book i dont want to put down.

[RobAnt]

My plan right now is to learn to speak and learn pinyin, and then delve into the writing further down the track (in about a year perhaps). In order to do this im going to go through pimsleur 1, 2, 3, read the transcripts talk to my girl, watch some mandarin movies shes got, and work on tones in words (whether i know the meaning or not) eg: ta1, ta2, ta3, ta - ma1, ma2, ma3, ma4, ni1, ni2, ni3, ni4...and just think about tones alot and say them out loud alot. I read somewhere here that drilling tones isnt a good idea??

From what I've learned so far tones are similar to the way you might say something in English for instance Where & There 哪儿 and 那儿 nar3 and nar2 - get the context right, and often the tone seems to be correct by default.

Now I suppose this is an over simplification, but hey I'm just a beginner.

[kudra]

From what I've learned so far tones are similar to the way you might say something in English for instance Where & There 哪儿 and 那儿 nar3 and nar2 - get the context right, and often the tone seems to be correct by default.

Now I suppose this is an over simplification, but hey I'm just a beginner.

OK now you've hit my pet topic -- how to get adult learners to learn to hear and produce correct tones. This is hashed out in the thread

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/6539-how-could-i-get-better-at-tones

In case it's not clear from that thread, I would disagree that you are making an over simplification. I would say it's flat out wrong. (It seems like I'm just beating up on you in this thread. My apologies, it's nothing personal.) My opinion is that any attempt to make the production of tones less daunting for adult learners by making analogies with English intonation is going to lead to trouble. I found it helpful to think of it as learning Martian. You wouldn't expect helpful similarities in that case. Anyway, it's all in the thread.

One thing though: I did not learn with Pimsleur. It could be that building a foundation that way,which is fairly slow in terms of new vocab, and just drill-drill-drill repeat after the tape, will get you decent tone production. I have no idea. I'm skeptical for the case of adult learners, that they can get tone production pain free with just repeating from tapes a'la Pimsleur.

[anticks]

the thing with pimsleur ive found is that i need the transcript infront of me to help with tones. Before i had the transcript when i tried to talk to people, they kept correcting me on my tones. So in other words i heard the tone wrong, and then said it the way i heard it. Having the transcript infront of me to aid me in listening puts a stop to this since im able to double check on any tones im unsure of.

Having said that pimsleur does tell you how some words are pronounced and what tones they are said in. But, i think, due to the learning style, i tend to forget easily from just the instructor telling me what tone to use. The transcript is really good for checking the tone before you say it.

My tones are still pretty bad but atleast i know what im trying to say because the word is on paper, and im not guessing.

[RobAnt]

OK now you've hit my pet topic -- how to get adult learners to learn to hear and produce correct tones. This is hashed out in the thread

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/6539-how-could-i-get-better-at-tones

In case it's not clear from that thread' date=' I would disagree that you are making an over simplification. I would say it's flat out wrong. (It seems like I'm just beating up on you in this thread. My apologies, it's nothing personal.) My opinion is that any attempt to make the production of tones less daunting for adult learners by making analogies with English intonation is going to lead to trouble. I found it helpful to think of it as learning Martian. You wouldn't expect helpful similarities in that case. Anyway, it's all in the thread.

One thing though: I did not learn with Pimsleur. It could be that building a foundation that way,which is fairly slow in terms of new vocab, and just drill-drill-drill repeat after the tape, will get you decent tone production. I have no idea. I'm skeptical for the case of adult learners, that they can get tone production pain free with just repeating from tapes a'la Pimsleur.[/quote']

No problem. I am a beginner, and prepared to accept any insight that might help me learn the language. I'm merely bringing to the fore what I have learned so far - which I freely admit, is practically nothing.

Your idea of how Pimsleur works is, however, way off track. There's no drill involved with Pimsleur, you do the lesson - if at the end of the lesson you can pass the 80% test you go on to the next lesson - otherwise do the lesson again and in the early lessons at least it would seem to me to be virtually impossible to FAIL the 80% test. There is no system within it to confirm your pronunciation, and they expressly ask you NOT to use other training systems while your using their course.

I have looked at other systems including Teach Yourself Chinese, Talk Now! and Linguaphone (both computer based), but their lack of flexibility of use and (especially with Linguaphone) lack of clear direction doesn't work for me. I initially started with Learn in Your Car, which sort of works but doesn't have the depth of understanding I'm gaining from the Pimsleur system.

My Chinese friends say that the pronunciation of what I know is okay so far.

Actually, I don't see/hear the words 哪儿 and 那儿 as being the same word with different tones, but two completely different words - which they are. There seem to be so many words which have the same phonetic build up that the tone becomes part of the word.

[kudra]

Actually, I don't see/hear the words 哪儿 and 那儿 as being the same word with different tones, but two completely different words - which they are. There seem to be so many words which have the same phonetic build up that the tone becomes part of the word.

You have put my mind at rest.

祝你学业进步鹏程万里

祝你學業進步鵬程萬里

[bomaci]

One thing though: I did not learn with Pimsleur. It could be that building a foundation that way,which is fairly slow in terms of new vocab, and just drill-drill-drill repeat after the tape, will get you decent tone production. I have no idea. I'm skeptical for the case of adult learners, that they can get tone production pain free with just repeating from tapes a'la Pimsleur.

I have learned with Pimsleur and while I thought it was good at the time I have now changed my mind. Since I heard about ALG approach I'm convinced that a much better way to learn the tones is to listen to a lot of short dialogs over and over and over again.

You need to allow the sounds of chinese to literally invade your brain. Pimsleur doesn't let you do this. There is way too much english on the tapes. However I also think it is very important to learn the tones by listening. If you can't tell the tones apart by ear you won't be able to produce them in speech either. I have recently started playing around a bit with cantonese and I'm taking this exact approach. I have intentionally skipped all explanations about tones and tone sandhi in cantonese and gone straight to repeteadly listening to short dialogs.

[RobAnt]

I can see some logic in a system that doesn't allow you to use any of your native language whatsoever in the learning system - ie you start pointing at things and giving them names, then fill in the vocabulary later based on context, as I'm sure that's how people must have learned how to communicate with each other in the first instance on many occasions - neither party having any original knowledge of the other's language.

And I am rather hoping that later on in the lessons they ween you off the English dependancy. However, I guess that's where they dump you - advanced level, then you're on your own....

Anyway, I think I'm going to perseve with Pimsleur. Where's the best place I can pick up the Intermediate and Advanced lessons? Unfortunately, I am not working at the moment (heart attack), and they're quite expensive - so the cheaper the better. If someone has the original CD packs in good condition, and would like to barter an exchange, then I'm sure we can work something out, I have lots of things I no longer need - computer networking kit, USB memory,digital camera (must be worth something) - PM me.