Living in China Vs. Japan. Thoughts? Ideas?

[ord100]

Question: What are your thoughts on the pros, cons, etcetera about living in China Vs. Japan? Anyone lived in both places?

I have a TESL certificate, 3 years ESL experience, a BA, so I can work in either place. I have visited both countries 3 times and am planning another trip this year. After initially favoring China, I have become more interested in Japan because of its cleanliness, orderliness, political/social stability.

Costwise, I think that the higher wages in Japan largely offset the higher costs... as long as you do not live in Tokyo or Osaka. So this is not the big factor that many people mention.

Your thoughts?

[novemberfog]

I travel all over Japan for work, and to be honest, in all of the urban places it felt as expensive as Tokyo: Nagoya, Hiroshima, Fukuoka, Sendai, Osaka, Kyoto, Sapporo, Yokohama.... They only place that felt a bit cheaper was Okinawa.

If you are going to try to save money stay away from urban centers.

[dougdu]

I am not too fancy with Japan. I traveled there one time, and in my humbleness it's just a bad tourist attraction; I prefer China instead.

You metioned that you're interested in Japan's for its cleanliness, orderliness, political/social stability. This is just a deficiency among the two countires. Each country is dissimilar, unique in its own way. But if you like Japan for these reasons, what's the reason for you to travel to China again? It's just be a bad investment for you. You also stated that the Japanese have higher wages, the notion is the same with China; not particularly Japan, respectfully all the nations around the world. It's the pay over the cost of living. Each one balances out evenly. I'll recommned you to take Novemberfog's advice:

If you are going to try to save money, stay away from urban centers.

Being away from urban centers leads to suburban areas. Welcome to China my friend. It's the same as Japan.

[ord100]

thanks for the comments

Q) "But if you like Japan for these reasons, what's the reason to travel to China again?"

A) I have spent about 5 weeks total in each country, traveling around, so I only have superficial impressions. That is why I am asking your opinions. I have never lived in these places, like you.

Thank you for helping me understand.

PS. Having travelled from Sapporo to Hakata I know that prices fall as distance from Tokyo increases. Besides, I like Hakata and Sapporo -- clean air and good seafood.

[mrtoga]

You will save more money in Japan, despite the higher cost of living, because the wages paid are at least three times higher than in China. If that is a major consideration for you, choose Japan. Certainly you will find it cleaner and safer.

Apart from that is is really a bit pointless to compare - they are completely different cultures / societies. It is worth understanding both of them, but without knowing your motivation for coming to this part of the world it is hard to give an opinion.

[pandaxiongmao]

You haven't said what you like about China and what you like about Japan in much detail.

If you like Chinese culture, but want access to Japanese things and Japanese cleanliness, you might want to consider going to Taipei.

Also, things in Japan don't always cost more. If you want to buy computer equipment, it is generally cheaper in Japan. Plus if it breaks, you are much more likely to get better customer service in Japan than China.

If you are interested in travel, and can get a job with a lot of time off in Japan, the higher wages will obviously be better for traveling in other countries.

[Language Guy]

I suppose it makes sense for you to prefer the Japanese way of life than the Chinese way of life if you're coming from a western culture. Japan is definitely much more westernized and globalized than China(though I credit that to the fact that China's so big).

If you're talking about actually LIVING there, not visiting, then immediately it makes me want to warn you about the xenophobia that exists within much of the Japanese culture. I've heard stories where people can live in Japan for decades and speak flawless Japanese only to be shunned as an outsider and even denied things like jobs and housing still.

But then again, we've also talked about minority discrimination in China alot on this board. I suppose it's something you can't entirely avoid.

I agree with Panda in that Taiwan might offer you a taste and balance of both worlds, although I've heard complaints that living in Taiwan isn't really the "Chinese experience".

You really need to decide which experience you want. But I'll agree that it's tough. If I were forced to make this decision, I don't think I would be able to do it.

[novemberfog]

I think you need to decide what you want to do. Are you trying to make a career out of teaching? Saving up for a Ph.D.? Or do you want to have an adventure in a country that is rapidly changing?

If you want to save money, Japan would the better of the two just because of the value of the currency. Though no one pays interest on Yen, so you need to put it in pension accounts, investments plans, or convert it to your currency and save money in your currency. Bank interest rates are still 0.001%, and look to remain that way for at least another year.

China would be the place to go for travel and the feeling of adventure. Things might be less clean, but that would be a fun experience, I think. I think it would really change the way you see the world. And it is still a growing country, in the future perhaps it will modernize and be very different from what you can see now. China would also have places like Yunan and Tibet where you could see different cultures. But I guess if you were in Japan it would not be hard to get there.

There are times when I wish I could quit my job and go to China for a few months. So much I would love to see there. I also think you should keep Taiwan on your list of places to go. I absolutely loved Taiwan, it was great. If I was offered a job in Taiwan, I would probably take it today.

Having travelled from Sapporo to Hakata I know that prices fall as distance from Tokyo increases. Besides, I like Hakata and Sapporo -- clean air and good seafood.

I am curious what you found cheaper. Beer still costs the same at the drinking wells, train/subway fare is about the same, a suit costs the same, the chain stores sell electronics or what not at the same price, a bowl of ramen is the same price... I suppose the taxi fares were lower, and the hotel prices were more reasonable. But a bottle of tea was still 147 yen in every convenience shop or vending machine, unless there is a campaign or the owner is trying to out-sell the machine around the corner. For daily life, the price does not change. I lived outside of Nagoya in the countryside, and it is just as expensive as Tokyo. Well, the security deposits on apartments were less, but the apartments were older was well.

And honestly, Tokyo is not so expensive. Some of the best kept treasures of Tokyo are really affordable, you just have to be able to find them. Consult with coworkers, consult　 "Hot pepper", etc. Don't shop at Takashima for clothes or Maruhiro for groceries.

I agree with you about Sapporo though. Crisp fresh air, comfortable summer weather, plenty of snow in the winter, and the best food in the whole country (or perhaps equal with Okinawa--damn good food there too). With your ESL certs and degree and experience, if you just went up to Sapporo for interviews in person I think you would not have trouble getting work.