Cultural Awarness and Race in China

[gougou]

Chances are... even if I could hang out with those Chinese... Probably wouldn't have much interesting conversation now would I.

Not necessarily. Some of the kindest, nicest, most intelligent Chinese people I have met strongly disliked Japanese people. On the other hand, some of the "simpler" kind had no prejudices at all towards them.

A person liking or disliking Japanese is by no means a sign of intelligence or lack thereof. In any society you'll find more or less strong stereotypes and prejudices, and plenty of intelligent people believing in them. At least when staying clear of this topics, you'll be able to have some very interesting conversations.

Nevertheless, I sincerely hope you'll not give in to any kind of peer pressure and make plenty of Japanese friends in China as well.

[mrtoga]

I have a bunch of Japanese friends here in Harbin - we have a 火锅　evening every Friday. They generally do make a few Chinese friends, but they don't feel able to openly go and talk to Chinese people in the way that I can.

The Chinese friends that these Japanese have are also my friends. They invite me out with their other Chinese friends, but they cannot invite the Japanese contingent to these get-togethers because of hostility from these anti-Japanese friends. It's rather sad.

(That was a lot of friends - apologies for confusing people)

I feel I should get back on topic. A poster mentioned that there are positive role models in the Chinese media too and mentions some political figures. I wonder if Chinese people realize how these people have had to battle to reach their place in society. I think we need someone who fits the stereotpe that we have painted on this thread to come on here so we can find out where these attitudes come from......

[Harvey]

The Chinese friends that these Japanese have are also my friends. They invite me out with their other Chinese friends, but they cannot invite the Japanese contingent to these get-togethers because of hostility from these anti-Japanese friends. It's rather sad.

Eesh. That's hard.

You know, I work in IT here in Japan for an American owned company, and we have Chinese vendors onsite, and even some Chinese in management positions. I have never felt any hostility between the groups, however there is certainly a barrier which prevents them from interacting freely with each other. It's kinda like, we have to work together, okay, we'll get the stuff done and see ya later.

I think we need someone who fits the stereotpe that we have painted on this thread to come on here so we can find out where these attitudes come from......

I'll get the spotlight to shine on his face and you get the old beat up wooden table and jail cell like room! It's time for an interrogation!

Nevertheless, I sincerely hope you'll not give in to any kind of peer pressure and make plenty of Japanese friends in China as well.

I'll do that gougou!

Fun thread.

[dalaowai]

Back to what Randall was saying, I think that what's happening here is if someone is different, they will be ridiculed, scared of, or discriminated.

When I arrived in China, I was a bit overweight and I got st on repeatedly. People would avoid me and I experienced the same thing as you did. I'm of mixed race, so people couldn't determine where I was from. It doesn't stop the masses from yelling out "Hello" at me.

Even in Shanghai, whenever I'm out with Middle Eastern friends, people fear us. So we encourage the stereotyping by confronting people who say inappropriate comments or if a guy shields his girl from us. We will say "You're right, Arabs ARE dangerous people! Be careful!"

You gotta enjoy the blatant discrimination and have fun with it. I had originally started playing a solo drinking game, whenever I was discriminated against, I'd drink a shot of Baijiu. Let me tell you, I was hammered all the time. But yeah, it still bothers me after three years in China.

In addition, my Chinese-American friends get discriminated on as well. They can't get jobs or decent wages because they're "fake-foreigners".

[sky888]

I felt prejudice in Japan and China. Ignorant low lifes are everywhere in this world.

I just ignore them and move on. I believe the 'culture curious' surely outweigh the ignorant. There isn't any reason to focus on it.

There are more opportunities in a foreign culture by being different and I surely enjoy to use peoples curiosity as an advantage.

I remember at night in Japan, the black dudes came back with two chicks and the white dudes only came back with one. I was surely jealous.

To me, sounds like a brotha needs to just step up his game.

[ask_weasal]

Thank you for the input.

To answer some of your questions I have been to Shanghai. I went for seven days to try and get a job but I was unsuccesful. I don't know if it was because of my skin color. For one school I know it had apparently crossed the mind of one manager. You know that Shanghai is really hot in the summer so I was going around attempting to look for a job but as you know blacks have this extraordinary perpensity(?) to sweat. It was about 90 degress and I couldn't stop sweating and I went into this english training school and it just went downhill from there. I went all the way to Shanghai just for that job and despite all of my credentials I was turned down, mostly due to the sweat I think.

When I stated "you guys" I was assuming that mostly Chinese post here.

Yeah I think this attitude won't change. Sometimes I grow tired of thinking about it but am constantly reminded when I step foot outside. Some people are really great to me but some people are ridiculous.

Today I told my class to write three things you dislike or are uncomfortable with about Americans. More than half said that Americans are racist and look down upon the Chinese. When I brought up my instances they didn't want to hear it. They said that it wasn't racism.

Some say its ignorance but doesn't ignorance stem from racism?

Not knowing or not wanting to know?

I just don't want to bring my American ideals here.

You know once my girlfriend thought the same way but I'm so glad that I could be able to change her mind. One at a time Harvey.

[gougou]

Yeah I think this attitude won't change.

Hey, come on, don't lose hope. I'm sure it will, just don't expect it to happen overnight. Look at how much time has passed since Martin Luther King, and even the US are not free of racism yet. The only thing for you to do is to push for it to happen a bit faster than it would without you!

Some say its ignorance but doesn't ignorance stem from racism?

Or the other way round?

[geraldc]

I think a lot of Communist and ex Soviet Bloc countries have large problems with racism directed against foreign students. I've read reports on how bad the situation is in Moscow etc. China, Russia, Eastern europe have basically been closed economies for the last 50-60 years, they have a lot of catching up to do.

There is one area as a foreigner where you kind of suffer reverse racism. If you're sporting, and play either badminton or basketball, you'll have Chinese queueing up to play you, as they'll be eager to test their skills against the foreigner

[gougou]

I think a lot of Communist and ex Soviet Bloc countries have large problems with racism directed against foreign students. I've read reports on how bad the situation is in Moscow etc.

It's not against foreign students in general. I've spent a year in Moscow and had no problems at all. By what I've heard, racism there is mainly directed against citizens of ex-Soviet countries, other Asians and Blacks...

[carlo]

Mainstream intellectuals, like Liang Qichao and Kang Youwei, at the turn of the 20th century wrote some unpleasant things about Africans. Chinese intellectuals took racial constructs and social Darwinism very seriously then, probably also because as Chinese they felt they were on the losing side of the 'theory'. As it always happens, those who feel insecure about their own status within a 'hierarchy' (real or imagined) can be quite nasty to those below them.

If you're sporting, and play either badminton or basketball, you'll have Chinese queueing up to play you

Well, who doesn't like the thought of competing at international level?

[mind_wander]

Randall,

In a way I can relate to this as an Asian- American, but the black negative stereotypes did started from Hollywood movies, how Black people would be the criminals. Here is an advice, have enough African information to back yourself up (debunking being Black), explain not everything you hear is not all true.

Also, for me sometimes, if there either an extra seat in class or on the bus, people would rather stand then sit next to me. There is the Asian stereotype in America too, if they sit next to an Asian, he or she might "Karake Chop Ya", or cannot speak clear "English", it is not true. This is conditioned because of Hollywood movie, reason why other ethnics don't mess with Asians as much.

Sam

[Harvey]

but as you know blacks have this extraordinary perpensity(?) to sweat.

Uh... speak for yourself there man ;-)

Today I asked one of my Chinese co-workers in Dalian this question, and he said that in his university there were many heiren black folk. He admitted that in the smaller cities in China things are not as open, but said that in moderately sized cities, it might be tough because lots of beautiful women would be staring at me.... Hah.

To summarize, he feels that yeah, there will be staring and people aren't used to it, but it's not meant to be negative.

[DrinkDrankDrunk]

What about positive racial stereotypes?

-JC, who is black from the waist down.

[tianjinpete]

Recently I showed the following films to my Chinese undergrads here in Tianjin: No Direction Home, Malcolm X, The Hurricane, and In America ... I wanted to recreate for them a sense of the heady idealism, the tremendous social upheaval, the reality of having to fight for civil rights in America in the ‘60s and ‘70s ... After each film, students recorded their reactions and read their opinions aloud in class...

Malcolm X (the man and the film) impressed them deeply ... One student wrote he was “ashamed he’d never heard of Malcolm X,” a judgment echoed in various ways by the majority of his classmates ... They were fascinated by Malcolm’s rise in power in the Nation of Islam and his dedication to his people, and they claimed to recognize in him a revolutionary leader... We also were able to watch the 1972 documentary of Malcolm X’s life ... The graphic details in it of white hatred riveted their attention...

Hurricane Carter presented a different problem: it is a representation of racism and a faulty judicial system that in the end appears able to correct itself ... Some students were disappointed when they discovered Hurricane Carter was never declared innocent of murder, but was let out of prison because of legal technicalities... Nevertheless, all were sensitive to the undercurrent of alleged racism in the previous trials...

In America, the tale of a poor immigrant Irish family making its way in New York City, features Djimon Hounsou as Mateo, a black man portrayed at the beginning of the film as reclusive, violent and threatening, but who, it turns out, is kind-hearted and is angry because he is dying of AIDS ... We debated whether it was right to depict Mateo as the stereotypical “violent” or “threatening” black man, even if that image is negated by the revelation of Mateo’s true nature ... Most students said other means might have been chosen to dramatize the conflict ...

I can say that the young Chinese I am teaching are not out-of-the-box racists, by which I mean they do not overtly or covertly express the view that any race inherently is inferior to their own, nor do they blame all whites for the attitudes that a few whites have held or now hold toward their fellow citizens... They uniformly prefer to believe organized religion and not race is the root cause of social conflict...

On a personal note, whenever I pass African students on the campus, I find they return my smile with a broad smile of their own ... By contrast, the white foreigners tend to turn their heads away or pretend not to see me... I assume this behavior reflects their bitter disappointment that they are not alone as foreigners in China...

[mind_wander]

In my opinion, in order to see more racism, by traveling to an area where your isolated or the only one in the class. It can help explain on how open-minded whoever they are around with. It shows, what kind of typical person they really are by conditioning from outside negative pressures.

When, I was in high school, there was at least 80% hei ren in class, and I was the only Asian in class. However, there was the steretype of people thinking "I know kung-fu."

[shadopup]

I just found this topic and found it interesting. I just skimmed through the messages but I didn't notice anybody mentioning this.

In general, a lot of Chinese people are scared of Black people. Why? I don't know. A Chinese girl who was my language exchange partner admitted that she was scared of black people.

Also as for getting an English teaching job, Many Chinese employers are stupid. They care almost zero about qualifications only care about how foreign you look. I have feeling that in some cases, it's because the Chinese students themselves demand this moreso than actual teaching qualifications. Any white dude who says he's from England or USA can get a job much easier regardless of whether he speaks good English or not.

A lot of Overseas Chinese whose mother tongue is English have difficulty getting a job because they don't look foreign.

I've even seen height requirements for applicants (waitresses, bartenders, cooks) who wanted to work at a coffee shop. It was posted right outside the door. What does height have to do with being a good cook?

As already mentioned, Chinese are quite blunt. I heard one guy make a joke about how black people are so black you can only see their teeth. Yeah, it could be seen as a mildly racist joke but the Chinese person saying it doesn't necessarily mean it to be. In general many Chinese are amused by foreigners, white, black or even overseas Chinese. They'll make fun of them but not because they're necessarily racist or hate foreigners.

Still, socially speaking China has a long, long way to go.

[tianjinpete]

mind_wander,

我愿意和你一起找到我们的共同点...

[mind_wander]

tianjinpete,

My Chinese reading comprehension isn't that good (我愿意和你一起找到我们的共同点...), if I am tranlating it correcty "You and me find the same important mind of thoughts."

Shadopop,

"In general, a lot of Chinese people are scared of Black people. Why? I don't know."

I can define this, but I can't represent of all Asian's out there, because all answers varies. If you live in a poor neighborhood, where people who smokes weed, selling bootleg movies, and where black people is very cheap. This is where it is stated why other Chinese people are particularly hesitant about making friends, because this negative traits exceeds over their positive traits. However, if black people are showing attempts to be further education and showing their own intellegence, then there is no stereotypes will occur.

[malinuo]

I don't have any personal experience of this, as I'm not black, but I'm still very surprised here. The Africans I spoke with in China (Nanjing) seemed very pleased with their situation. They did not necessarily like being looked at, but apart from that they in general seemed much happier with the Chinese than with Europeans.

There are two things that spring to mind here.

The first is that it may be other factors that create bad reactions than the colour of your skin. A loud voice, an incomprehensible or simply unusual accent, a huge body, unusual clothes, lack of flexibility, lack of decisiveness, unwashed hair or beard, or just a loud laughter or about anything, that some people may find annoying with other people. Obviously, I don't know if that's the case here, but from my perspective, it is at least a possibility.

The second thing is that you are bound to find at least some people who have funny reactions. I never got any extreme reactions to my presence as foreigner in China, and neither has that happened to me in any African city. Most people have been very friendly everywhere. However, I have been alone to African villages where white people were very rare, and as I walked around there with my big read beard, a majority of the children were visibly upset - actually scared. It's of course not pleasant not to be able to ask for even a glass of water without frightening people, but I wouldn't call those children racists for their fear of the unknown.

[yorkie_bear]

Hi OP

I'm BBC (British Born Chinese) and have suffered some petty racism whilst growing up - nothing major, but name-calling, spitting etc. So.... just wanted to say that I really feel sorry about your situation. I know that in the mainland they love to name-call and are racist especially against black people. It sounds though that you've also met some great people who do not share these prejudices so I really hope that these postive experiences outweigh the negative.

I actually think that Chinese people aren't really nice to any stranger regardless of ethnic origin - unless they get to know you... as you seem to be a decent and dignified chap, I hope that bit by bit other people's prejudices will be changed if they get to know you...

best of luck