Chinese Citizenship Query

[lungyan]

yeah i'm aware of all this but the thing is i don't have 7 years to waste i can't afford it to take that long. it's also a very complicated situation and the only way i can progress is to get hk citizenship.

[Ian_Lee]

A lot of false information being given here.

(1) A Chinese HKSAR passport is as good as a UK passport, if not better. It has visa free access to about 130+ countries worldwide, including all EU countries, Canada and Japan. The only major country that UK passport holder has visa-free access while HKSAR passport holder don't have is US.

But if you travel in Middle East, IMO a HKSAR passport holder is more immune to terrorist kidnapping than a UK passport holder.

And IMO Chinese Embassy provides better service than British Embassy. Recently a HK tour group got into a car accident in Eygpt. The Chinese ambassador drove from Cairo for several hours to the accident site and arranged to send some of the wounded to fly to hospital in Paris for treatment.

In fact, recently Chinese embassy advertises that it will provide "good quality service" to HK compatriots (even if they don't hold SAR but BNO passports) and Taiwan compatriots (who hold ROC passports).

And even HK dissident, "Long Hair" Leung Kwok Hung, who took a coffin to demonstrate whenever Li Peng or Jiang Zemin visited Hong Kong, praised the Chinese Embassy when he lost his SAR passport during overseas travel. The Chinese Embassy promptly gave him a new one without any hassles.

(2) Even if Lungyan is a Falun Gong believer, but if he chooses to reside in HK only, he would face no humbug. Falun Gong has a long term booth in Star Ferry Pier to pass out pamphlets and they are also regularly around Wong Tai Sin Temple to pass out pamphlets to Mainland tourist group.

(3) As fellow poster said, Chinese citizenship and permanent residency are two separate issues. But even if you acquire permanent residency after 7-years' stay in HK, you are not automatically entitled to Chinese citizenship or SAR passport. In fact, many South Asian residents in HK are not entitled to Chinese citizenship even if they are born in HK. Many have petitioned Chinese government for citizenship in futile. So technically they are "Stateless persons" since they can only possess BNO passports.

Of course, there are a few cases that some foreigners in HK have been naturalized as Chinese citizens. The most prominent case is former British official, Mr. Rowse, who now works as chief investment promotion official in the SAR government. But I guess he may have political ambition because the Basic Law stipulates that all the top officials in HK must be Chinese citizens. Anyway, the residency is at the discretion of HK government but the citizenship is decided by the Chinese government.

(4) As other posters doubt, why does Lungyan need Chinese citizenship or even HK permanent residency? If Lungyan wants only to stay in HK but not work in HK, he can just fly into the territory. Every UK visitor is entitled to 6-month visa free stay in HK with no question asked. And when the 6-month deadline expires, he can fly back to UK and comes back within weeks. HK and London is even better connected than before '97 with 9 direct flights both ways everyday. If he chooses to fly in the low season, he can easily get a bargain from Virgin.

(5) Since Lungyan is 24 only and I assume he wants to get a job in HK, it shouldn't be too difficult for him to get one during his 6-month stay and then asks his employer to sponsor to switch to a work visa. In HK's red hot economy, he shouldn't face too much trouble in getting a job even if he doesn't know Cantonese or any Chinese. But unlike Pre-'97 years when any youths from Britain could get a work visa even if he worked as a bartender, the HK Immigration Dept has a more stringent criteria.

The benefits for a right of abode holder is that he can be elected as a legislator (even if he is a foreigner), entitled the right to vote, the right to work w/o visa, the right to enjoy free 9-year education and to be treated in public hospital as resident who pays minimal fee.

So why does Lungyan need a HK permanent residency or Chinese citizenship? Getting a permanent residency or citizenship in any developed regions is never a "simple thing" as he conceives even though he also comes from a developed country.

[lungyan]

Thanks a lot for response. This sounds pretty good except how to get it. And yes I really do need at least right of abode and if possible citizenship for complex reasons. It is essential absolutely essential, it's nothing dodgy, just complex. The question is just though how can I possibly get it? It seems so difficult I can't believe it.

[flameproof]

>i don't have 7 years to waste

You should have a true interest in living in HK if you want to obtain a HKSAR passport. If you do, you would not see living in HK as a 'waste'. HK is a place with very transparent nationality rules.

>But if you travel in Middle East, IMO a HKSAR passport holder is more immune to terrorist kidnapping than a UK passport holder.

Don't count on that. Chinese nationals have been killed too. I am not aware of any HKSAR passport holder being killed, but one should remember that their number is extremely low.

[rose~]

What, so those people living in Hong Kong of South Asian descent do not hold HK SAR passports? Even if they are born there? Did I get that right?

[flameproof]

>so those people living in Hong Kong of South Asian descent do not hold HK SAR passports?

It depends. Many 2nd/3rd generation ethnic Indians or Pakistani citicens could apply for HK SAR passports. I don't think many do. Some did though.... They do hold passports and don't have much need to apply for another nationality.

Most well known non-ethnic HK SAR passport holder is probably Mike Rowse, MD of HKinvest. He came from NZ and chose HK for his permanent home.

Keep in mind that HK SAR Passports only exists since 1997, and they were not very popular when they first came out.

[Ian_Lee]

Lungyan:

Actually the rule is not complicated at all. It is easier to get right of abode in HK than many other places in the world.

The requirement is that you have resided in HK legally for 7 years before you are entitled to become a permanent resident.

So a lot of Filipino maids have already gained permanent residency after they renew their employment contract twice.

But in most other countries, you will never be entitled to permanent residency if you are just a guest worker no matter how many years you have been working there (and paying taxes).

[Ian_Lee]

Rose:

The South Asian population in HK was a thorny issue between Beijing and London during the 14-year long negotiation.

But just weeks before the transition, London agreed to offer UK passports to many South Asians who have lived in HK for 2 or even 3 generations.

However, not all South Asians have got British citizenship. Many didn't get it and technically became "Stateless" people albeit they can travel by BNO passports and have right of abode in HK.

But those born after '97 would not even be entitled to BNO passports since they have never been British subjects.

[flameproof]

>So a lot of Filipino maids have already gained permanent residency after they renew their employment contract twice.

That was changed many years ago. Filippino maids are required to leave HK after each 2 year contract. That means they can not stay 7 years without break. Even if you just break for 1 day, you have to start again from zero to count your seven years.*

Those who have permanent residency are from the 'very old days'. I am not sure when the 2 year break rule started. I guess in the late 1980th or early 90th.

* only those time count that you are legally in HK with an other then tourist visa. "Continuesly" means that you have to be i.e. employed all the time. You can have holidays abroad. But if you chage employers and have, lets say, 3 days between jobs, and the visa shows that gap, then you start again from zero.

[rose~]

Thanks for the clarification about passports. I remember a big fuss in the news when they created BNO passports. I don't know the details of BNO passports but they don't seem to offer many advantages for the holder. May I ask, why those Hong Kong residents of South Asian descent are not eligible for a HKSAR passport? How about the same issue for white or mixed-race people?

Please could someone say how to say HKID in Chinese? is is 身份證 the same as in the Mainland (I mean is the word the same, not is that the saem thing =) ?

So from Ian Lee's explanation it seems clear that one needs to spend 7 years to try and get the residency. Are there exceptions for marriage to a HKSAR passport holder or someone with permanent residency?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sorry, this is off-topic but is it also right that anyone holding HKID can apply for 回鄉証 (home return permit)? What about those who are non ethnically Chinese?

[Ian_Lee]

Flameproof:

Thanks. I think you are correct. The Filipino maids that I know who have gained permanent residency belonged to the first batch who came to HK to work in the early '80s. I think the rule change was implemented in early or mid-'90s.

[skylee]

So a lot of Filipino maids have already gained permanent residency after they renew their employment contract twice.

This is not true any more. Section 2(4)(a)(v) of Cap 115 of HK Laws says, "a person shall not be treated as ordinarily resident in Hong Kong ... during any period in which he remains in Hong Kong ... while employed as a domestic helper who is from outside Hong Kong".

[flameproof]

>is it also right that anyone holding HKID can apply for 回鄉証 (home return permit)?

Wu Heung Jin can only applied by people holding a 3-star HK ID card. That is people which are HKSAR nationals. Others, even permanent residents can not apply.

[Ian_Lee]

Rose:

Anyone marries to a HK permanent resident will become a HK resident and gets a HKID. But he/she will still have to reside in the territory continuously for 7 years before he/she is eligible to become a permanent resident.

The difference between their HKIDs and other HKIDs is that there are no three asterisks (stars) on this kind of ID.

There are exceptions to the 7-year rule. NPC revised the Nationality Law especially catered to HK in 1996 that any children born overseas to Chinese citizens who have HK right of abode will be entitled to permanent residency in HK.

So a lot of those kids born to HK immigrants in Britain, Australia, US and Canada will automatically gain such right even though they have never set foot in HK.

Those South Asians born in HK cannot apply for HKSAR passports because they are not Chinese nationals.

[Ian_Lee]

Flameproof:

Not quite correct. I have gone to China Travel Service to study the rules.

Permanent residents, but not HKSAR passport holders, can be eligible for Home Return Card. And I know several cases.

For instance, those kids born in Australia or Canada, who are entitled to 3-star HKID but not HKSAR passport, can apply for Home Return Card provided they can show their BNO passports.

But if they have not applied for BNO passport (the application deadline I recalled was 31/12/97), then they cannot apply for Home Return Card.

[rose~]

I am crossing "immigration lawyer-Hong Kong" off my list of desired occupations!

But seriously, the case Ian Lee describes is why I asked, because my best friend is a British passport holder born in UK, parents born in HK, and she holds 3 star HKID and also 回鄉証 home return permit but NOT a HKSAR passport.

[flameproof]

Anyone with a 3-star ID card can apply the "homegoing permit"

Because, 3-star means that you can apply.

You have to hold some sort of HK passport (BNO, HKSAR, BTDC).

>Permanent residents, but not HKSAR passport holders, can be eligible for Home Return Card.

well, if you hold a HK passport you are most likely a permant resident. If you are a permanent resident you don't have automatically a 3-star card. If not, you can NOT apply for a "homegoing permit".

>Those South Asians born in HK cannot apply for HKSAR passports because they are not Chinese nationals.

Sure they can apply if they are permanent resident and are willing to give up their current nationality.

"because they are not Chinese nationals."

Of course they are not if the haven't got it yet. After they have the HKSAR passport, then they can apply for the 3-star card. Then they can apply for the "homegoing permit".

skylee

I presume that the 2 year must leave rule a safeguard, since that law may not hold in court coz of racist issues.

[rose~]

Those South Asians born in HK cannot apply for HKSAR passports because they are not Chinese nationals.

Isn't the overriding factor that they are not of Chinese desent and not that they are not Chinese nationals? According to Point 1 of the Explanations of Some Questions by the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress Concerning the Implementation of the Nationality Law of the People's Republic of China in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region:

Where a Hong Kong resident is of Chinese descent and was born in the Chinese territories (including Hong Kong), or where a person satisfies the criteria laid down in the Nationality Law of the People's Republic of China for having Chinese nationality, he is a Chinese national.

http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/hktraveldoc_1_o16_12.htm

[Ian_Lee]

I really doubt if anyone got 3-Star HKID can apply for "Home Return Card".

A lof of gweilos and Indians possess 3-Star HKIDs. And obviously no part of Mainland is their "hometown". So how can these gweilos and Indians apply for "Home Return Card" to return to their hometown?

[flameproof]

Ian_Lee

Please refrain from using racist terms.

Again, 3-star means you are eligible to apply the "home permit". Usually *** ID holders have HK nationality and are therefore Chinese. Buit I do know a number of foreign passport holders which also have a *** ID - and successfully applied for a "home permit"

http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/topical_3_2.htm

>A lof of xxxxxx and Indians possess 3-Star HKIDs. And obviously no part of Mainland is their "hometown".

Reminder: a foreign passport holder who wants to apply for a permanent ID card has to declare HK as his home.

Reminder 2: A permanen ID card does NOT has automatically 3-stars. One would have to apply to become a chinese citizen first.