Quan Ju De Restaurant, Hanzi confusion

[lokki]

I hunted around the web a little to find the hanzi of the "Quan Ju De" restaurant, mentioned in Pimsleur. I am a little confused about a couple of things that came up:

First, it appears that the hanzi for "Quan Ju De" are 全聚德 as in the text on this page http://www.wangfujing.net.cn/html/quanjude/qyjj.htm. According to another webpage it can be translated as "repository of all virtues", which seems to approximately fit those hanzi.

So far so good, but looking more closely a couple of weird things come up:

1. If you look at the logo at the top of that same page the hanzi is written backwards, as "De ju quan", while in the text itself it is written the right way around. Same backwards spelling can be seen in this photo http://www.beijingimpression.com/tu4/quanjude.jpg. Truly intriguing ! Why would it be written backwards ? Does that change the meaning or anything ?

2. That middle letter "ju" looks very different from 聚, both on the logo at the top (first link above), and in the picture mentioned, as well as in this picture http://p.vtourist.com/1514017-Quan_Ju_De_Peking_Duck-Beijing.jpg (where the spelling is not backwards, incidentally). My first thought was that it could be a variation between traditional/simplified hanzi but when I checked, at least according to the NJStar dictionary there is no difference between traditional and simplified in this case, so it wasn't that simple. Very confusing indeed ! Is that really the correct hanzi, and if so, why does it look so different there?

3. EDIT: Another doubt about the "ju" is that I think I hear it as a third tone on the recording "ju3", while the character above is a fourth tone "ju4". This is very likely just me hearing it wrong, since I am still at an early beginner stage for picking out tones, but it does add to my confusion.

[sophialee]

I'm a 100% Chinese so I guess I can help you with your confusions.

1. writing backwards is very common in traditional Chinese culture. you know Dui lian right? in the shortest of the three pieces of Dui Lian, those words were usually written backwards. so don't let it bother you, it's very very common.

2. that is not something big either. the characters were written in Shufa style to be exact. and in that very style, Ju is written like that.

3. Ju is in 4th tone, not 3rd tone.

tell me if you have any confusions in my explanation. (My english is not as good as my Chinese, so there might be many mistakes and confusions in my explanation, plz feel free to correct and ask. )

[skylee]

It is not written backward. For tablets/signs like these it was customary in the past to write them from right to left. Take a look at this post -> http://www.chinese-forums.com/showpost.php?p=60490&postcount=8

I don't think the 聚 on the sign looks very different. When you write faster the strokes tend to linger and link together so they may look a bit different.

As far as I know, 聚 is ju4.

[lokki]

OK, thanks for that. First time I hear about the right-to-left horizontal writing. I did know about the vertical writing where the lines go right to left. You live and learn.

I realise that stylishly handwritten characters can appear quite a bit different from the "official" form, but what threw me was that the upper half of 聚 is eight strokes in the printed form, and on what is seen there I count four, or five strokes at the most.

[HashiriKata]

Traditionally, Chinese is written vertically, from top down. When the vertical line is full, you move to the next line on the left. Now imagine on a board each vertical line has just one character, it'd then look as if Chinese is written from right to left.

[lokki]

Big thanks to all who replied. I am no longer confused - well, at least not about this.

Sophialee your English is fine. No problems there.

Now I am just hoping I can actually physically get to the danged place one day and try their world-renowned Beijing kao ya.

[stephanhodges]

Why right to left?

I read someplace that this was because of the use of scrolls to write. Presumably most writers were right handed, and would unroll the scroll with their left hand while writing.

While reading is easy either way, I can't imaging writing left to right without a third hand in that situation!

[roddy]

Now I am just hoping I can actually physically get to the danged place one day and try their world-renowned Beijing kao ya

For my money, Quanjude is somewhat overrated, and if you go to one near a tourist location you are likely to be rushed through your meal as they try and get you out the door before the next coach party comes in. I mean, you'll still get decent duck, but you can get decent duck in any number of places - the Tianwaitian (天外天) chain is one other reliable option. Best duck I ever had was at some place around the west third ring road where I used to work, can't remember the name - something about purple mountains? Nine purple mountains? 九紫山？ - but the Dadong place by Changhong Qiao comes a close second and with gorgeous chunks of Australian cow as well . . .

[taryn]

I'm trying to find out the characters for Quanjude Restaurant.

If I read this little paragraph right, these are the characters:

For some reason though, I can't seem to find them when I try to type them in MS Word.

Any tips?

[roddy]

Any tips?

Search for 'Quanjude' and all shall be revealed. Will merge the two topics.

[taryn]

Ah, foiled again!!

Thanks Roddy.

[WangLongju]

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Interestingly, what hasn't been mentioned so far in this thread is that bu4 is used on top of the simplification; a much closer phonetic cue than the original qu3. A common occurrence in handwriting, as evidenced by many of the current simplified forms.

On the right-left left-right issue, another interesting thing is that sometimes such phrases could be read "backwards" or "forwards". Thus, Quanjude (All Gather in Virtue) could also have been read (altho perhaps not seriously, but suggested nonetheless) as Dejuquan, meaning Virtue Gathers Completely. Not a major difference in meaning for this one, but a different perspective to be sure.

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