Consistency between Cantonese and Vietnamese?

[pazu]

As I'm now learning Vietnamese, I would like to know if there're other people in this forum could speak Vietnamese too.

Anyway, are there any consistency between the two languages? I found that in most "Han Viet" vocabularies, they retain the "rapid tone" (rusheng), and Y -> NH (e.g. yi tong -> nhi dong = child). Anyone can give me more idea?

[niubi]

having studied a bit of vietnamese myself i can attest to a lot of chinese vocabularly in vietnamese (though i was looking at similarities based on my having studied mandarin).

[nnt]

I can give some help, but I don't know cantonese.

The similarities concern vocabulary, not grammar. Some are more like mandarin than cantonese, some are directly borrowed from cantonese.

For example, there are two words for Hong Kong, one from Hán Việt: Hương Cảng, which sounds much like Xiang1 Gang3 , the other one (more popular) is more like cantonese: Hồng Kông.

How are you learning: with another Vietnamese speaker, or with books, tapes ?

[Quest]

香港 in Cantonese is not really "Hong Kong". I would spell it "Heung Gong" So, it is probably close to Huong Cang too.

[nnt]

Let's make some comparisions with mandarin, so you would draw your own conclusion concerning cantonese.

Some chinese characters are pronounced the same way in Vietnamese and mandarin:

高 gao1 , in Vietnamese : cao

欧洲 ou1 zhou1 -> Âu Châu (Vietnamese Ch = zh in pinyin)

天 tian1 -> thiên (VN th = t in pinyin) in Hán Việt. In Vietnamese sky = trời

衣 yi1 -> y

Some are slightly different.

Differences in consonants:

报告 bao4gao4 -> báo cáo . In VN "b" is pronounced like English "b", and "c" is "g" in pinyin

岛 dao3 -> đảo đ = English d

Differences in tones:

毛 mao2 -> mao is equivalent to pinyin mao1

来 lai2 -> lai is equivalent to pinyin lai2

etc...

You can start with what's similar first, it's easier!

[nnt]

来 lai2 -> lai is equivalent to pinyin lai2

Typing mistake here:

"来 lai2 -> lai is equivalent to pinyin lai1

[pazu]

I can give some help' date=' but I don't know cantonese.

The similarities concern vocabulary, not grammar. Some are more like mandarin than cantonese, some are directly borrowed from cantonese.

For example, there are two words for Hong Kong, one from [b']Hán Việt[/b]: Hương Cảng, which sounds much like Xiang1 Gang3 , the other one (more popular) is more like cantonese: Hồng Kông.

How are you learning: with another Vietnamese speaker, or with books, tapes ?

Hi Nnt, thanks for your posts on this topic, and are you Vietnamese? Do you know how I can input the Vietnamese alphabet using Windows XP?

And do you know where I can find some books or websites with some linguistics history of the influence of Chinese in Vietnamese?

And I'm now using the Teach Yourself Vietnamese as my basic textbook, but because the Vietnamese is based on the northern accent, and I'm now in My Tho (70km away from HCMC) so a Vietnamese friend of mine is helping me to point out the Southern equivalent.

My command of Vietnamese now is very basic (I've been learning for 2 weeks only), and I'm going to stay here for another 2 months or 3 to learn more.

[nnt]

Yes, I am Vietnamese.

About inputting Vietnamese in Windows XP, what you have to do has been said in the following post:

 

For Windows XP, Vietnamese is another East Asian language.

You just add another Input language and another Keyboard.

In Windows XP, you can easily switch from one language to another.

As you are in Vietnam now, it should be very easy for you to find books (in HCMC at least) about Hán Việt. Why to bother about web sites when you're already on the spot?

[niubi]

when i was looking at the university press website of my former grad school i noticed that my former vietnamese teacher has published an intermediate vietnamese textbook that comes with 3 cds: Chung ta noi . . . Conversational Vietnamese: An Intermediate Text. this will be far too advanced for your level at this point, but in the future if you wish to continue your studies of vietnamese check it out. its rather pricey though...i would hope that some etailers have discounted prices.

[nnt]

Good news: There is a Vietnamese site in English with free audio lessons in rm format (no text) you can download:

http://www.vov.org.vn/amthanh1/tiengviet/hoctiengviet/hoctiengviet1.htm (page 1)

http://www.vov.org.vn/amthanh1/tiengviet/hoctiengviet/hoctiengviet2.htm

http://www.vov.org.vn/amthanh1/tiengviet/hoctiengviet/hoctiengviet3.htm

http://www.vov.org.vn/amthanh1/tiengviet/hoctiengviet/hoctiengviet.htm (last page)

[pazu]

Thanks for all the links! And I'll check them out when the internet isn't too slow.

[nnt]

I've found an interesting link about the relations between Chinese and Vietnamese languages:

http://www.vny2k.net/vny2k/SiniticVietnamese.htm

I do not share many of the extreme views expressed by its author (for example: the proposed reform of vietnamese orthography, the questionable origins of many words, etc...), but despite the fact that it overlooks the differences between chinese and vietnamese grammars and over-emphasizes the similarities in vocabulary, the paper has its qualities:

- It's written in English and the web page uses Unicode

- It has a good bibliography

- It's still in-progress, which means the subject is still hot, and shows the diversity of opinions on the subject.