Foreigners in China that DON'T learn Mandarin?

[magores]

Quick background:

-I've been in Beijing for 6 months.

-I teach English, and I work a minimum of 40 hours a week

-Because of my particular situation, I find that I end up studying English more than I study Chinese. (I teach a range from 2 year old Chinese toddlers to 24 year old China natives with university degrees in English. I need to know what I'm taliking about with the English majors...)

My Mandarin has not progressed nearly as far as I hoped/thought it would in this time. Laziness is part of it. So is the fact that is it EASY to survive in Beijing on the basics of "Ni hao", "Zhe ge", "Xiexie", and "Wo bu dong". (Even in the SE part of the city where I live.)

Anyway....

I admit my Mandarin is still horrible. But, I have recently met a number of people who claim to not have tried to learn Mandarin. THese are people that have been here for 5 years. Obviously, they have picked some things up. And, their Mandarin is better than mine. But the key thing that sticks in my mind, is that they say "I haven't tried to learn. I just picked stuff up. I just speak 'garbage' Chinese."

Am I crazy, or is that just "sooo wrong"?

[Quest]

Hong Kong's too Anglicized.

[imitation]

90% of expats learn no chinese in my experience or very very poor crap chinese and don't care. This is in GZ I wasted the first 4mths of China with people like this foolishly thinking they actually knew some chinese because they'd been here 4yrs+

I still waste to much time with foreigners and it has severely inhibited my Chinese growth but I study full time for the last 2 semesters and it's become much more important as well as using it alot with my girlfriend who I live with who is Chinese now.

I think it's disgusting because these same people seem to treat Chinese as there little slave dogs and act like they are so important for being here teaching English when most of them have what a 20hr TEFL degree you can buy off the internet. I hate most long term expats I meet, they're just so sad.

[Lu]

But, I have recently met a number of people who claim to not have tried to learn Mandarin. THese are people that have been here for 5 years. Obviously, they have picked some things up. And, their Mandarin is better than mine. But the key thing that sticks in my mind, is that they say "I haven't tried to learn. I just picked stuff up. I just speak 'garbage' Chinese."

I don't believe this. Sure you can pick some things up, like you have, but if you want to learn enough Chinese to have a conversation in (that goes beyond 'Tai gui!'), you need to actively learn it. Whether that is from a book or from some Chinese friends who teach you random phrases, you need to learn, practise, etc.

There are plenty of expats who never do this, and as a result don't speak any Chinese beyond ni hao, zaijian, xiexie and zhege, even when living in China for years at an end.

[Quest]

I think it would depend on the age of the expat as well.

[wushijiao]

But, just to be fair to expats who can’t speak Chinese past the basics, here are a few reasons why it may be hard to learn Chinese, even while in China:

1) Age. As Quest noted, many older people find it difficult.

2) Some educated Chinese people, especially in big cities, speak very functional English.

3) Many people want to speak English, even if you want to speak Chinese.

4) It isn’t necessary to daily survival to learn anything past the basics.

5) Some expats live in places in which Mandarin isn’t the most common spoken language.

6) Most expats who can’t speak Chinese work in non-Chinese speaking work environments, obviously.

7) Many expats hang around other expats and Chinese people who speak great English. The “circle of friends” rarely includes monolingual Chinese people, unfortunately.

8 ) Once you have a circle of friends, you have to be a bit cold and emotionally distant towards them if you are serious about improving your Chinese. Most people aren’t willing to choose language study over friendship.

9) Not enough time. Many people are too busy with work, family…etc to learn the language.

10) Cheap DVD’s. It’s easy to get distracted by non-Mandarin entertainment with DVD’s being less the a dollar. Many people are forced to turn to the lure of the DVD when compared with CCTV's fascinating array of vegging-out, heart pumping entertainment.

11) Chinese, especially at the initial stages, can be damn confusing. Many people aren’t quite sure where to start.

I’m sure there are dozens of other reasons why it is hard to learn Chinese for expats. Some of these difficulties can be remedied, of course. In any case, I wouldn’t feel bad about not knowing the language.

At least this puts things in perspective. In the US, there is often an underlying sense of disgust and contempt for foreigners living in the US who don’t know English, especially illegal immigrants. But I think the same difficulties foreigners in China face are the same difficulties immigrants in the US face as well.

[imitation]

wushijiao your post is all very good, I just get annoyed because of the double standards and because so many people get used to just getting by with english bad chinese they get angry when they can't get their point accross with just that, uhhh well duhh it's China....

the thing about getting stuck in a circle of friends is true, I have basically just stopped seeing people because my weeks went like this M-F class going well by F feeling very comfortable using Chinese 24/7 Sat,Sun meet foreigner friends get lazy with Chinese, Monday arrive class and thinking in English everything.

It's funny because the foreigners who aren't really into Language study all talk about what a relief the weekend is to finally talk some english and be understand where as I lament to think of Saturday nights and what a waste of time it will be for my Chinese skills.

[wushijiao]

It's funny because the foreigners who aren't really into Language study all talk about what a relief the weekend is to finally talk some english and be understand where as I lament to think of Saturday nights and what a waste of time it will be for my Chinese skills.

I certainly know that feeling. I like to booze it up on a Saturday, but hanging out with other English speakers always works against my goals.

Anyway, yes, teaching in China has become a refuge for the egotistical, the socially awkward, and the crazy, unfortunately. Telling expats in other fields that I teach English is a bit embarrassing, even though it shouldn’t be.

[md1101]

my dad has been working in china for 7 years and doesnt speak any chinese. we always used to bug him and ask why but to be fair he is always extremely busy and chinese does require some time to learn. plus his main oppurtunities to use it would be on business and that requires some rather formal business chinese. It's a lot easier for people with a lot of time to socialise and go through the basics (at the start) with local Chinese people like greetings etc.

that said i still think some expats should make a larger effort to learn the language. a lot of them have been there so long but in fact know so little about the country because they have been sheltered in 5 star hotels and bars catered for foreigners the whole time. but for a lot of expats it is perfectly possible to get around without the language because they will often have a chinese person with them. and the bars they go to (like malones) cater for english speakers.

[Lu]

On one hand I don't really blame those expats. Wushijiao mentions a lot of valid reasons why many people never learn any Chinese. Another reason is that they often only stay for a limited amount of time, and then are sent off to another country they don't speak the language of. Not learning Chinese is a choice these people make, and as they get by quite well, the choice makes sense.

On the other hand, I think most western countries have many immigrants coming in, immigrants who don't speak the language and hardly mix with the locals. In many western countries this is becoming a problem, and people tend to get annoyed with these immigrants for not making enough of an effort. And then you meet expats who live in HK or Beijing for years and years, or who marry a TW wife, and yet never learn any Chinese beyond ni hao etc, and barely know any locals except for their secretary, their ayi and their chauffeur. Expats who are from the exact same countries that blame immigrants for not learning the language better.