Keats School, Kunming - A Query

[Julia234516]

Zier is actually a very nice and caring lady. However she has typical Chinese manners. You are not dealing with British people who say sorry even when they sneeze! You are dealing with Chinese people who address others with the structure "you there"! It is important to be aware of how much the language influences people's behaviour. It is rudeness only in your linguistic and cultural view. Many teachers have to take care of admins and teaching at the same time. If you go to keats or any other school, read about the Chinese teaching style, it is important as well. My testimonial is that I thought Keats didn't even exist, because they didn't reply to my emails. Once I insisted they replied. Chinese reply only one question at time. I lived in China so this didn't surprise me.  I wrote 15 emails, one email per question and I waited for the reply. Once there, I was happy with the teaching because it fitted my needs: it was really academic. I was happy with the accommodation and with the food. The cost of the course is okay, although if you want to save money you can find cheaper solutions in Taipei and Hong Kong. The cost of living there is higher. If you think you need to be in China for learning Chinese, think again. Most of the people don't speak the language you are going to learn and they won't make any effort to understand you, so you will feel demotivated and you won't improve so much as if you were outside mainland China. Learning Chinese well for academic or business purposes is different from the learning of other languages where it is advantageous to spend time where the language is spoken. If you are really confident and you think you speak a language when you can say thank you and good bye, then disregard my considerations about learning in mainland China because they won't affect you. 

[edelweis]

@hitanshu I totally believe that the mail exchange happened as you described, and you were wise not to book without an answer to all of your questions...
but have you considered that the school might be actually be full *because* they upped their advertisement recently?
( which would not terribly professional of them, but at least would not be outright lying to customers as you apparently accused them of)

Also, not all the comments on this thread are from satisfied customers. And at least a few of the comments on this thread are from regular posters on this forum.

[Hitanshu Arora]

edelweis,

 

I have asked the admin to delete my messages but if more people keep replying it will more difficult for the admin to delete.

 

Answer to your question: No the school is not fully booked for the dates I am interested in. I think for some reason she did not like me so and she did not wanted to take me as a student.  She has apologized and its all good between us. Please do not reply any further because I am trying to get this deleted.

[Julia234516]

Hitanshu, what you experienced is really common. As I wrote they don't want to be rude... I don't think you made things up... But be aware that there's worse, like getting to the school and find out you wasted your money and time because the teaching is poor and the environment is stressful. Keats is a nice place. I thought I was in heaven after what I had experienced in China! 

[abcdefg]

1 hour ago, Hitanshu Arora said:

Me: ... I have two degrees from UK and USA and I already speak 4 languages fluently. I think you are extremely unprofessional. How could you send a message to a potential student that he is rude? I filled an online form and without answering all my questions, the first reply was that few seats are left and make a booking now. I think this is extremely rude. You are trying to get a customer so he/she can pay without explaining anything? Seriously? I do not believe this and then you reply that I am rude? Who are you to say regarding this? I will not close this matter here and I will take very serious action regarding your school and personally you Zier.

 

There must be some mistake. I cannot possibly imagine why any school would not be happy about the privilege of having you as a student. 

[Flickserve]

Sounds to me someone is deliberately trying to sabotage the school. 

[roddy]

Hitanshu Arora has been in touch to ask his posts get deleted. I'm not doing that as deleting either positive or negative reviews in these cases is a bit of a minefield. This looks to me like a busy school losing a little bit of email discipline rather than anything to worry about - and to be honest I'm not sure I blame them in this case.

 

 

[imron]

56 minutes ago, roddy said:

I'm not doing that as deleting either positive or negative reviews in these cases is a bit of a minefield

Agreed.  Plus if I anything I think it's more instructive for people to see others who have problems that are then resolved rather than pretend problems never existed.

[Wippen (inactive)]

Interestingly, nine hours ago when Hitanshu Arora posted the message above, at that same time a competitor to Keats School sent me a private message saying they were a good alternative to Keats. The competitor operated under a different user name.

 

Although I am not entirely satisfied with Keats the way it is run now, I cannot relate to anything Hitanshu Arora is writing. The owner is very polite and very capable.  Also they have never asked me to sign up immediately but an offer was sent first.

 

I do not believe that review is true.

 

I do want to point out here that Keats needs to sort out the problems I outlined above. I still feel loyalty towards the school as I learnt a lot there.

 

 

[roddy]

Well, we have opinions about unsolicited private messages, and there's a 'report reply' link on the PM. 

[Flickserve]

10 hours ago, Julia234516 said:

The cost of the course is okay, although if you want to save money you can find cheaper solutions in Taipei and Hong Kong.

 

This is a surprise. 

[DavyJonesLocker]

On 13/05/2016 at 9:33 AM, hongputaojiu said:

 

Pros - its cheap. If you land a one of the good teachers, they are as standard as anywhere else.

 

But it says on the website there is up to 15 in a class . That dramatically changes the effectiveness of a class. I've done classes ranging from 1 on 1 to 16 in a class

Any more than 5 and the class becomes very limited in its use (in my view)

 

[ShelbyR]

12 hours ago, Julia234516 said:

I was happy with the accommodation and with the food. The cost of the course is okay, although if you want to save money you can find cheaper solutions in Taipei and Hong Kong. The cost of living there is higher. If you think you need to be in China for learning Chinese, think again. Most of the people don't speak the language you are going to learn and they won't make any effort to understand you, so you will feel demotivated and you won't improve so much as if you were outside mainland China. Learning Chinese well for academic or business purposes is different from the learning of other languages where it is advantageous to spend time where the language is spoken.

 

I also was surprised that this type of lodging, food and tuition with one on one classes can be found cheaper, as that hasn't been my experience in attending a different school as well as looking around online for schools in Taiwan that had the same ease of accommodations for a short stay of 3-4 weeks.  While Kunming isn't particularly a tourist attraction, at least it's a pleasant city with no pollution, near the Stone Forest and Da Li, etc..

 

Across from the Keats school is a little coffee shop run by two sisters.  They love to talk to foreigners, of any level, in beautiful standard Mandarin.  I had a Polish fellow student who spent hours in there, as did I, conversing.  His level was beginner, and I'm advanced intermediate.  A gem like that is worth the trip, and the coffee was excellent.  I also talked to the Sifu who was at the Temple a block away, and trained with his little group there.  He was very accommodating, and I went 3 days a week, to work out, and to talk.  

 

Davy, you can choose your class size.  When I was there they had mostly 1 on 1 students, but one large class that was for people living in Kunming that was offered in the fall.  I think they offered a 4 people small group class as well, but all of the other students I saw (about 20) were doing private lessons.

[DavyJonesLocker]

29 minutes ago, ShelbyR said:

Davy, you can choose your class size.  When I was there they had mostly 1 on 1 students, but one large class that was for people living in Kunming that was offered in the fall.  I think they offered a 4 people small group class as well, but all of the other students I saw (about 20) were doing private lessons.

 

Thanks ShelbyR I didn't see that on their website I only mention it for the benefit or other prospective students looking on this forum.  I think it is prudent when comparing prices of different schools to factor in class size (amongst other things) and not just  compare prices. Almost every school i have enquired about in beijing is limited to about 6 students. I think Keats is being a little cheeky is suggest "small group size" and then say it can hold up to 15. That is not the standard definition amongst private language schools in China in my experience. i don't wish to cast a shadow over them by any means, they sound like they have a good reputation. 

 

However, the other factors that needs to be considered are cost of accommodation and cost of living. 2500 for accommodation is a lot cheaper than Beijing for example.  Most people i know pay from 6500 to 12000 pm in BJ

[Flickserve]

21 minutes ago, DavyJonesLocker said:

I think Keats is being a little cheeky is suggest "small group size" and then say it can hold up to 15. That is not the standard definition amongst private language schools in China in my experience.

 

In their defence, they are quite explicit about it. And 'small' depends on the comparator. The lack of a universal definition of small group gives leeway for any range. 

[DavyJonesLocker]

2 minutes ago, Flickserve said:

In their defence, they are quite explicit about it. And 'small' depends on the comparator. The lack of a universal definition of small group gives leeway for any range. 

 

True, I can understand that they want to put their school n the best possible light and just wish to ensure students compare carefully. Keats do seem to have good reviews.

 

I know several schools in BJ that advertise X weeks or whatever teaching but fail to tell you that they include 春节,. 中秋节 in these X number of weeks. Also an hour never seems to be the definition of an hour when I went to school ;). Its usual 45 or 50 minutes when ends up to be less due to all the breaks and chatting by teachers  during breaktime . The should mention number of classes and not hours as its misleading

 

After  years in China I have learned to read the fine print on just about everything haha

[Helmut]

When I became retired, for the first time in my life I went to China intending to study Chinese language. It took time to learn about Keats and when I joined Keats for the first time (1 to 1 lessons) I got the feeling my teacher forced my patiently to speak Chinese. It really was a great feeling. Meanwhile two more times I joined Chines lessons at Keats, because I learned that this school offers a very good method for studying - and this for a very low costs. 

Pat my hometown I always recommend Keats School.

Helmut

 

 

[ShelbyR]

I'm back at Keats again and said I'd post after checking out what the changes entailed that a previous writer posted about.  So far, I haven't seen any changes.  Some teachers have moved on, and some are still here from 4 years ago (my teacher Jin Li is one who's been here for years).  I was picked up at the airport at about 2 am by a friendly Didi driver.  He texted Zier that I'd arrived. 

 

It appears they've expanded to the tenth floor, as I'm in a new apartment that was rennovated in October of 2017 and even smells new.  My one on one teacher is engaged and helpful.  I've only had two lessons as of this writing but they've been excellent.  The school has a clean and well kept appearance, and the teachers are friendly and upbeat, as before.

 

Last time I'd requested that they have a little "starter kit" of things that might be needed, and indeed when I got to my room there was a roll of toilet paper and a bottle of water waiting.  As for efficiency, the cook is the same as well as the cleaning woman, they are friendly and helpful and the cook even showed me some photos from her phone tonight and recommended a place to visit about a 3 hour drive from here. 

 

I was taken on a tour (that I hadn't gotten last time I was here), which was very useful as I get lost easily and doubt I'd have found the gym that we get free membership to, on my own.  My teacher registered me at the police station, without me having to go along.  At meal time there is a table that has a sign for Chinese speaking only, and a teacher has sat with us at dinner for the past two nights and has spoken only Chinese.  Most of the students this time around speak Chinese very well, yet still choose to speak English.   I don't think there's much the school can do about that.

 

 

 

 

[Wippen (inactive)]

26 minutes ago, ShelbyR said:

I don't think there's much the school can do about that.

I put on my original feedback form to Keats that they should have one table dedicated solely to chinese speakers and one optional one/English speaking one. That way you achieve that people consciously have to choose. I have been to other language schools that strictly enforces this and are successful at doing so. It can be done.

 

Anyway I ended up not going to Keats this year but chose another school and am pleased I tried something else. It was my luck I guess that Keats was not that fast in processing my application as I was forced to try something new. I will shortly put a review about that school, which is located in another part of China.

 

[SunnySideUp]

Hello,

@Wippen (inactive) Did you get around to writing that review by any chance? I searched the forums, but didn't manage to find it, unfortunately...

 

@all. : I would also be interested in other recent reviews of language schools, if at all possible. (A bit of background, if necessary: I'm looking to study at a school for about 1-2 months; I'm not a complete beginner anymore, but would also shy away from saying I was intermediate. Preferably one on one classes or very small groups, region with clear 普通话 spoken so I could practice outside of class...)

 

Thank you and apologies if this post is misplaced here.