Keats School, Kunming - A Query

[NinjaTurtle]

SunnySideUp,

 

I would like to suggest that, if you are beyond the basic level (and if you are already in China), you should consider finding Chinese people that can study one-on-one with you for free. Especially if you are an English teacher, you might be able to find several of your students who are willing to do an "exchange" with you (speaking only Chinese for thirty minutes, then only English for thirty minutes. It can even be one hour of Chinese-only followed by 30 minutes of English-only. Many of my students are very happy to do this type of unbalanced exchange). For me, this way of studying is much more effective. But I also do understand that some people need a regular class, in a classroom, with a textbook, homework, a final exam, etc. If you are interested in how to do an exchange with someone, please feel free to ask.

 

Are you already in China?

[SunnySideUp]

Hi NinjaTurtle,

Thank you for your advice. I'm currently not in China and I'm also not an English teacher - I'm just someone who's interested in Mandarin for the fun of it (meaning I don't have to cram for tests, either, but I have taken an easy HSK before to see if I could pass.) I don't think I'm good enough to just meet up with people to talk and since I have done quite a bit of self study I'd prefer a more structured approach for a change. 

 

I have been looking at Keats, obviously (that's how I found this threat), but LTL's Beijing & Chengde program sounds intriguing, too. Especially the homestay option. I was thinking about going in fall, and as ridiculous that sounds, weather does play a role in my plans (so the North might be a bit cold this time of year), but so does clear 普通话, which makes me a bit wary of Yunnan province. So I was wondering if someone had been to other schools similar to Keats and LTL or could comment on their recent stay in these schools. 

[NinjaTurtle]

SunnySideUp,

 

I hope you find a good school. In the meantime, have you watched some of the listening videos on YouTube?

[roddy]

18 hours ago, SunnySideUp said:

@Wippen (inactive) Did you get around to writing that review by any chance?

Wippen didn't want to post on here any more and requested the addition of (inactive) so everyone would know. Which was a new request in my 15 years of running the site, but we aim to please.

[SunnySideUp]

@roddy Thank you for letting me know that Wippen ist no longer here. I did notice the "inactive" part of the username, but then again thought it could have been a reference to inactive Chinese studies or the like. 

 

@NinjaTurtle Thank you! I've listened to/watched some, most recently from the channel "Chinese Zero to Hero" that's tied to HSK levels. I'm in between HSK 3 and 4 at the moment, so nowhere near being able to listen to real native material, unfortunately. What are your favorite videos/podcasts? I also quite like the chairman's bao. 

 

In terms of finding a school, I've seen good reviews for both Keats and the LTL homestay programs, but I'm leaning a bit more towards Keats at the moment, because I think I should be a bit better when I truly want to live and interact with a Chinese family on a day-to-day basis. The north will also be colder and  LTL seems to be a lot more expensive. Only thing with Keats is that I read most people outside the classroom will speak some form of dialect and let's just say I struggle enough with listening and understanding the clearly enunciated audio recordings ;) Anyway, thank you - much appreciated!

[roddy]

Can I ask we keep the more general learning questions to other topics - start a new one if you like - and keep this one focused on Keats. Thanks. 

[NinjaTurtle]

Sunny,

 

Here is a thread I made for some intermediate listening videos I like:

 

https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/56689-listening-mandarin-corner-with-eileen/

[ShelbyR]

As far as the accents and dialects go in China, there are a ton.  I studied in Beijing and found it hard to understand typical people on the streets.  I studied in Kunming, at Keats, and also found the accent there different.  But, most people can speak standard Mandarin so that once I got a feel for the accent, I was able to understand them.  I found younger people to have the least accents, in general.  The older driver from the airport to Keats had a pretty thick accent so I asked him if Mandarin was his native language, and it wasn't.  I think that it's all part of the learning experience, and I wouldn't let the local accent be the deciding factor on where you choose to study.

 

Also, I did a homestay for a month in Beijing and found it to be OK, but my biggest problem is that I think in English.  I'd have a short dinner (and breakfast) with the family, then I'd go to study and they'd go to watch TV, and didn't invite me to join them.  So, I'd go to my room, and think in English, so wasn't particularly "immersed".  At the meals I didn't understand the older folks at all because of their very thick Beijing accents, and the 50 something "kids" would translate for me into standard Mandarin.  I was probably an advanced beginner at that time.

 

When I went to Keats I just stayed in the school itself and found it a lot less stressful than living in a stranger's apartment (but that's me).  I found a coffee shop where the staff was bored and spoke standard ("perfect") Mandarin and would chat with them a few times a week.  They were nice 20 something women who appreciated the foreigners going to their shop.  If/when you find people who are willing to talk with you, you luck out.  I went to a local temple and befriended the older men there through doing gung fu.  They did have thick accents, but we had very interesting discussions about housing costs and prices of things.  Keats hired a driver of a car to go to the Stone Forest and I sat in the front and had two hours each way of discussions about everything.  As your vocabulary and Chinese move to higher levels you'll find that more people want to talk to you, because they're also curious about the west.

 

Around the corner from Keats the last time I went was a new Western coffee shop and an English language school.  Parents would drop off their kids and wait.  I'd go there to get coffee (almost double the price of American coffee!) and study.  I had two occasions to talk to parents in Chinese waiting for kids.  To me, not the most extroverted person around, it took a little work to be available and open to talking to strangers.  You get better at it with time, and have to be willing to accept rejections as well, because people have their own priorities in life and often don't want to have to try to understand a foreigner.

 

Once you get beyond the "you speak Chinese very well, where do you study" level of conversation, it gets easier, and harder, to have "real" conversations about a vast array of topics.  I'm a veterinarian and always find a vet hospital to visit where ever I am in China.  I spent an afternoon in Kunming at a practice where the vet there is doing stem cell research, so I brushed up on my medical Chinese with my Keats teacher before I visited him.  It takes work and dedication to find a way beneath the surface of Chinese people, language and culture.  I found that my profession has helped a lot in that regard, though it wasn't my intent at the beginning.  Since the vet didn't speak a word of English, the immersion was complete.  Good luck on your journey, and be willing to try different schools and cities to broaden your experience.

[SunnySideUp]

Thank you very much @ShelbyR for taking the time to write down your experiences - that was really helpful. I sort of figured it's make or break depending on what family you get... quite amusing to read about 50-year old "kids" though not so nice they didn't invite you along to do things. Did you find the family on your own or did you go through an agency/ language school?

If I end up going to Keats I might pay your gong fu master a visit, too. That sounds like a fun way of practicing the language 

Thanks again for the write-up, really appreciated reading it!

[ShelbyR]

You're welcome Sunny.  I found the home stay through the school I attended for a month.  The woman thought that they did an excellent job being inclusive, compared to other home stays (but I had nothing to compare them to) and they did invite me to help them make food during New Year's, which was pretty neat.  Their son was in college in America and that's how they had an extra room to rent.

 

At Keats I started to chat with the woman who did the cleaning.  She had a very thick accent so I was determined to understand her.  The men at the temple also had thick accents and were very old but very interested in America, human rights, etc, so that prompted a week of me studying political words at Keats. The temple is on Baita and Tuodong just beyond the Gingko's (which has a western supermarket in the bottom floor). The cook at Keats is very nice and has been there for a long time.  She was also good to chat with after dinner, and she showed me some photos of a place to visit, some rice patties.  I didn't end up going, but another person at the school rented a car and went out to see the famous rice patties.

 

My big score on practicing Chinese came with a two hour conversation in the coffee shop with a woman studying English.  As it turns out, she couldn't understand or speak a word of it, but was very curious that I was studying Chinese, so that started our conversation and we just kept talking.  She was probably 35-40 and spoke standard Mandarin.  Next year when I go back, I'll make more of an effort to start a conversation, not just study or read, when I'm in the coffee shop.  It takes a fair amount of energy to keep trying to have good (not just superficial) conversations, so that's why I like having my own room to decompress after being out and about during the day.  They also have cable at Keats so I could watch Chinese or English TV.  I already have the 3 Kingdoms series loaded onto my computer from Youtube with English subtitles for my next trip (but two episodes in Thai as I couldn't find a Chinese version  ).  It's about 60 hours.

[imron]

8 hours ago, SunnySideUp said:

That sounds like a fun way of practicing the language 

I highly recommend it.  Not necessarily gongfu - just finding local Chinese people with a similar interest or hobby as one you have, and then interacting with them out of a shared interest in that activity.  It's the best way to make local friends and pick up the language at the same time.

[ShelbyR]

A year later and here I am back at Keats for 3 weeks.  They keep expanding and adding apartments in the building, which is a good sign of their health as a school.  I spent the year taking a two hour a week online class from Keats via Skype, and it really helped my progress compared to where I was last year at this time.  Initially I did my own thing when it came to studies, but now I'm trying to follow the HSK outline and even though I don't plan to take the test, the teachers follow the book for me.  It's added a lot of organization to my grammar and vocabulary, but in both (especially vocabulary) I have learned bits and pieces from many levels over the years.  I started coming to China to study 4 years ago, and am not rushing to get anywhere, except hopefully to be able to listen and understand Chinese TV and movies so that I can progress on my own.

 

They have more teachers sitting with us at more meals speaking Chinese, and I always go to a table with a teacher as Chinese is the default language at those tables.  That's one improvement I've noticed this time.  They still have the special night classes two nights a week, which cost a few kuai, and I like going to any topic as it's two hours of Chinese on a topic I probably didn't know much about, such as making Chinese spare ribs.  Each night activity is a different topic by a different teacher.  I timed it this year so as not to miss the "semester" by coming well after New Years.

 

There are many of the same teachers that I've come to know over the past few years.  Some have left for various reasons.  Mandy/Zier still runs the school and was very helpful when my airplane wound up in a different city due to weather, so I was 6 hours late, and my luggage arrived the next day.  

 

 

[ZhuoMing]

Has anyone studied at both Keats and CLI in Guilin? I am trying to pick a 1 on 1 program to study at and am having trouble deciding, both seem very  similar. Thinking about just spending half of my time at each if I can't decide.  

[艾墨本]

14 hours ago, ZhuoMing said:

half of my time at each

Don't do this. The more time you spend with one teacher, the more beneficial your 1 on 1 time will be. Having to start over a reestablish a study routine will disrupt your learning progress. From my understand of the two programs (having studies at keats and knowing many people who went to Guilin) both are good and you won't go wrong either way. Just pick one and commit. You might be struggling to decide because they are both great.

[abcdefg]

Agree with Ben. Especially since you probably only have a short time. If I'm wrong and it's a matter of six or eight months here and six or eight months there, then we need to discuss further. 

[ZhuoMing]

1 hour ago, 艾墨本 said:

Having to start over a reestablish a study routine will disrupt your learning progress.

This is a great point.  I was worried about this as well as the aspect of making local friends at each of the cities. It would be easier if I spend more time at one place. 

 

That said my reasoning for wanting to do both was because Guilin and Yunnan are both places I am very interested in visiting. My time studying will be followed by about a month and a half of touring all over china, and if I study at Guilin then I'll spend some time afterwards travelling Yunnan, and vice versa if I choose to study at Keats. So I figured since I'll be going to both cities regardless I might as well just extend the time and do a study program while there.  

 

Sounds like it might be a better idea to spend the majority of my time at one of the cities, and simply visit the other one later on.  

 

1 hour ago, abcdefg said:

Especially since you probably only have a short time. If I'm wrong and it's a matter of six or eight months here and six or eight months there, then we need to discuss further

My plan was to spend about 3 months total, so I'd split it into 6 weeks at each city.  So you're right, and I should not try to do both programs. 

 

I will try to choose one school.  I am more concerned about the city itself than the school since both seem very similar. I think I am currently leaning towards Guilin since it seems like a more interesting city to live in than Kunming, but I might change my mind any day.  I have spent 4 months studying at Chengdu in the past, and I loved it. I figure Kunming is probably more similar to Chengdu, which is fine - I LOVED living in Chengdu, but part of me wants to experience a smaller city and see what living in one is like.  If anyone has some input about these cities I'd love to hear it,  I know this thread already has some good information about Kunming. 

[mungouk]

4 hours ago, ZhuoMing said:

My plan was to spend about 3 months total, so I'd split it into 6 weeks at each city. 

 

Have you checked that you can still get an X2 visa if you're being sponsored by two separate schools for only 6 weeks?

 

If your ambition is to visit places then it might be worth considering making this distinct from the studying part, i.e. have a few holiday weeks as well as the studying?

 

 

[ZhuoMing]

25 minutes ago, mungouk said:

Have you checked that you can still get an X2 visa if you're being sponsored by two separate schools for only 6 weeks?

My plan is to spend 5 months total in China, with 3 months dedicated to study followed by 2 months for travel all over the country.  I was going to get the tourist visa and make a weekend trip to another country every 60 days or whenever it expires.  

[mungouk]

OK... no guarantees there though in terms of days of stay.  (I just applied for 60 days L visa and was told I'll only get 30.)  

 

For what it's worth I'm pretty sure Keats are one of the few private schools allowed to support an X2 visa.

 

 

[Richard_]

How is it Kunming with putonghua now? I'm going to spend 32 weeks in Keats and my only concern is the dialect. Well, I suppose I'd have problem with dialect everywhere in China so..

I heard Keats is famous for the one on one classes but I prefer the small group. Is it good as the one on one?