Keats School, Kunming - A Query

[hongputaojiu]

Hello. I studied with them recently. To be honest, the teaching was hit and miss. There were a couple of really hopeless teachers. One really good one.

 

From my observation, it was an excellent language institute that is passed its prime. The "principal" who handles the money is actually just the owners daughter, and she is based in another city and has no idea what actually goes on, nor does she have a background in education so probably couldnt understand what problems exist.

 

Pros - its cheap. If you land a one of the good teachers, they are as standard as anywhere else.

Cons - pot luck if you get a poor teacher. Teachers and admin not really student focussed anymore.

 

I have been to four different language institutes across China in the last couple of years, so can offer a comparison.  I do not work in the language training industry!! I am just a long term studier of Chinese!!

[艾墨本]

@hongputaojia

 

I'm most interested in what teachers you thought were good and what teachers you didn't think were good. What made the good teachers "good"? And what made the bad teachers "bad"?

 

As for your other experiences, I'd love to hear about those, too. 

[hongputaojiu]

you've got to hsk 5, so no doubt you've had your share of good and bad chinese teachers!!

 

Likewise, I have (at times I think again all odds!) made it through hsk 5. 

 

I think I could write a book on this topic! Needless to say, I have had a handful of excellent teachers, both in China and overseas, and whenever I have, I try to hold onto them for as long as possible! But in my experience the Chinese education system is responsible for the situation. 

 

I am fortunate to currently have the very best teacher I've had working with me now. I am back working in China. My teacher graduated from a UK university. But to be honest, some people can skillfully teach and interact with students, and my current teacher is one of them. But if she stops being available I will back out looking again!

 

good luck with your adventures!

[ShelbyR]

I did online lessons for a year after I finished at a school in Beijing.  It was great.  I plan to do that with Keats school as well.  It really holds you accountable and keeps your learning going forward in speaking and grammar.  Also in reading, but I didn't emphasize that, just needed to recognized what was typed on my skype screen.

[ShelbyR]

Here I am a few  months later at Keats school.  I'm just about finished my first week.  Since I did a month in Beijing last year I have something to compare it to.  I'm an older person, so the two mile walk to and from school every day in Beijing was tiring.  I also found the "home stay" in Beijing somewhat stressful.  I was never alone.  I was either in someone's apartment, or at school six hours a day.

 

At the Keats school I have a room with a bathroom.  About 20 feet away is a washing machine.  I'm much more relaxed.  ACBEDEF  recommended I not do 6 hours a day (like I did in Beijing), so I'm doing 4.  I'm so glad.  I take er hu lessons two nights a week (a traditional Chinese two stringed instrument), here at the school.  I discovered that not more than a 7 minute walk away is a temple where every morning they do gung fu.   Since I went, I now I have a Chinese friend who is a gung fu master and I work out with them before class five days a week.  I get to talk Chinese with him and his other students.  I also get to talk to my er hu teacher.

 

The food is good, but a little greasy.  Everyone speaks English, except the ones who can't.  I try to sit with the non English speakers at meal times and speak Chinese.  My teacher is Kayden, and he is very good.  I'm intermediate, to advanced intermediate, mostly self taught, so it's hard for them to know exactly what to teach me.  I told him I need to work or fast spoken Chinese next week.  Because when I'm out and about, I have trouble understanding what people are saying.  As for homework, I review the things I learned each night.  Less studying than I did in Beijing, which gives me more time to interact with Chinese people in other ways.  Since we all eat together, I went to a bar the other night to say goodbye to a classmate who was leaving. That's kind of neat too.

 

I'll be back to Keats as I like that you live in the same building that the classes are held, and get meals five days a week.  I don't really need to go out to order food, as I know enough Chinese to do that.  Nobody asked me to post, and I have two weeks more to go.  I'll post somewhere, when I'm finished.  I will add that thanks to this website I discovered Keats.

[abcdefg]

Just saw your post, Shelby. Glad that Keats has worked out well for you. And by studying 二胡 and 武术 on your own, you get to sample a whole different category of language learning. Congratulations!

 

I recently took a short series of "follow-up" classes there myself and was impressed by how they have continued to improve over the years.

[ShelbyR]

From hongputaojiu:

"From my observation, it was an excellent language institute that is passed its prime. The "principal" who handles the money is actually just the owners daughter, and she is based in another city and has no idea what actually goes on, nor does she have a background in education so probably couldnt understand what problems exist."

 

I wanted to comment on this statement.  I had two teachers at Keats.  The first was Kayden, who was excellent.  The second was Zuer or Mandy, and she was also excellent.  She's an MIT grad so her English is good, she's smart, and she's helpful.  I don't know what her major was, but she told me that even though she went there but came back to her first love, teaching.  She's also the owner.  Her parents have a tea business up north, near Beijing.  Mandy runs the school herself, is onsite, and has taught there both before college and the past 7 years since graduating.  She was also great at medical terminology, which I was interested in.

 

I asked her if it was her business and she said it was and that she makes all of the decisions.  To me, it's run very professionally, as though an owner were present.  Maybe when putaojiu was there she was away at college, I don't know.  The customer service is excellent.  She asked for an evaluation when I left, and I suggested a starter bag with a roll of toilet paper, maybe 20 kuai of cash, water, some garbage bags, etc..  When I arrived I didn't get a tour because I they had an open house, my card didn't work in 7 banks, and I had to wait till the next day to talk to a teacher, go to the bank that accepts foreign cards, buy water, and so on.  She thought that was a great idea.  I hope they implement it, but I'll be going back next year to study there, so I can see .

[艾墨本]

My experience at Keats was fantastic. I had high expectations, specific goals, and my tutor worked with me to meet all of them.

 

Full disclosure, I was gifted a box of tea when asked to write this review. It was Pu’er. I couldn’t turn it down :-P

 

I went to Keats to attend two weeks of one-on-one instructions for four hours a day.

 

Similar to ShelbyR, I also worked with 刘子尔/Mandy(I think that’s her English name), and while I was there Jayden was my “advisor,” which meant he checked up on me to see if I was satisfied with the teaching I was receiving and if I had any suggestions. I’m not sure what his Chinese name is but he is one of the three co-managers, along with Mandy and one other teacher.

 

As ShelbyR said, Mandy had studied at MIT and has been teaching with Keats for some time. Considering she is only 26 now, I don’t think she has been there for 7 years since coming back. Regardless of what certification or experience she has, she was certainly a good teacher for me.

 

Currently, I am considered advanced-mid according to a test given by my employer. I wanted a teacher that could help me fix a lot of fossilized errors in my pronunciation and teach me grammar structures. Mandy was able to deliver in full.

 

Additionally, she was able to answer all of my other questions fully and with sufficient depth. Specifically, whenever I had questions about similar words, she could explain the differences and subtleties without hesitation. Once she discovered I responded well to flow-chart-esque explanations, she created one every time thereafter.

 

Furthermore, when we were working through pronunciation, she gave me detailed descriptions of how to form my mouth and helped me understand the source of my errors. She didn’t do what I have encountered so many other times: “no, like this. No, like this. No, like this. You’re wrong. Copy me.” I needed the detailed description of tongue position, air flow, and lip position. She was able to provide all of that.

 

The day before my first class, she interviewed me very thoroughly to get an idea about my goals while at the school, what topics I was interested in, where I viewed my current level, and just get a sense of my personality (in fact, one of the questions directly asked what my personality was). During this interview I explicitly stated I was at Keats to study and I wanted to use all of my time as such. I asked for homework. Mandy met my request and prepared worksheets that used the vocabulary and grammar pulled from the four different books we were using and kept me busy for a solid 7-8 hours of study every day.

 

Another part of this pre-class interview was trying to figure out what learning material I wanted to use. After looking through several textbooks, we settled on “Developing Chinese” advanced level, book two. This took into consideration that I wanted to be able to self-study whatever book we used beyond the two weeks of class.

 

On top of “Developing Chinese,” she also picked out several other books: 普通话声调训练 (for pronunciation material), 对外汉语教学实用语法 (for grammar structures and exercises), and “Jump High” advanced book (for listening practice). Over two weeks, we covered four chapters of Developing Chinese and Jump High, each, which is also where she pulled the 50-80ish vocabulary words I learned each day.

 

Despite the variety and breadth of the material, Mandy was able to bring it all together to form cohesive, four-hour classes every day. She was well prepared and knew exactly what she wanted to achieve with me each day.  When I made requests for the addition of more “production” type activities, she included them. When I asked for more vocabulary practice, she created more homework worksheets. She was definitely spending a lot of time before and after class preparing for those four hours.

 

The last thing I wanted from these two weeks was a clear plan of study that would take up about one semester and need one to one and a half hours of time per day. We worked together to write out all my weak points and what I needed to do to strengthen them. We also worked through what tangible goals I wanted to reach within the next 18 weeks. She worked with me to write out a concrete plan of what I would do on a once daily, weekly, and biweekly basis. Each task included specific quantities: whether it was time, new words, length of writing, etc. Most importantly, her ability to help tease out what skills of mine were lagging behind enabled us to create a well-informed study plan.

 

On a brief note, class aside, everything was great. My bed was had decent bedding, I had a personal bathroom, the gym (included with tuition) was within 10 mins slow walk or a light 5-minute jog and the equipment was top notch. Lastly, the provided three meals a day (m-f) were fantastic with plenty of vegetarian options. The only meal that was lacking was the breakfast as it was exactly the same and overly dependent on white bread or red bean bread. All this made for a distraction free environment to study Chinese in and not have to waste time finding good food in an unfamiliar city or dealing with hotel room related problems.

 

I intend to continue with online classes as a way to support my study plan and keep me honest with my goals. While expensive at 6,200 RMB, this man who could barely afford it feels his money was well spent. 

[abcdefg]

...and while I was there Jayden was my “advisor,” which meant he checked up on me to see if I was satisfied with the teaching I was receiving and if I had any suggestions. I’m not sure what his Chinese name is but he is one of the three co-managers, along with Mandy and one other teacher.

 

玉老师。His friends at the school often jokingly call him Mister Fish, making a pun on the name.

 

The third supervising teacher is 马老师，from 玉溪。Tall and slim, with glasses.

 

(I'm an off and on student of theirs since 2007.)

[Francesca (胡兰)]

I have recently completed the 4 weeks one on one course at Keats. I highly recommend the school for these reasons:

 

1) The teaching is really good. I consider this to be the most important feature when you pay and you have the ambition to learn. My teacher was always prepared and I have learnt so much that often I perceived her teaching as a precious gift. I have only heard positive comments on every teacher when I was there.

2) The service is good. They really care, not just for business, so you will find easy to communicate problems, impressions, wishes, etc...

They came to the airport and my teacher was at the school to meet me. She showed me around and suggested some eateries and interesting places. My room was clean, cozy and quiet. Food at the school is good.

3) Kunming is a pleasant city, it has nice parks, a lively center, and many interesting temples.  

 

They didn't ask me to write a feedback. So this is not cheap propaganda! 

[Valerie]

This January I had completed my 2 weeks of study at Keats to prepare for HSK4. Before I came I read a lot of reviews as part of my research, so hopefully my impressions will help others too.

 

It was my first time at Keats and I did not know what to expect. The replies from the school were super fast & professional, but as the school itself I had no idea how it would turn out. So initially I had booked only a week there and was planning to spend the other 2 weeks backpacking around China. I figured "hey for like 480 dollars a week with all food & board included this would be the cost of my hotel & restaurants anyway, and Chinese teaching will be a bonus". My Chinese was quite rusty (after passing HSK3 I did not speak or use it for almost 3 years) and I wanted a bit of prep and confidence before backpacking alone. However after staying at Keats for a week I was so impressed with my progress I extended my stay by another week.

 

What I loved about Keats:

1) Teaching quality

One-on-one tutoring really allowed me to progress soooo much faster! In a class setting at least 50% of the time is wasted listening to other students badly toned Mandarin (ha not like mine own is any better but your own bad tones don't grate the ears as much :p). I had two teachers and each one had its own approach - with my morning teacher it was HSK4 word list drilling, situational dialogues and making up my own stories using new words (I was deathly afraid of my strict teacher so fear prompted me to study harder :)). With my after-lunch teacher it was a lot of reviews, chatting, conversation and exploring Kunming while talking only in Chinese. It had really improved my listening comprehension and built up my confidence. Chinese city is an intimidating place if you are new to China and my teacher showed me the coolest things that I would had never discovered on my own: renting minority costume for a improvised photosession in the park, bird & flower market with tiny turtles and place to cut my own custom seal. Fun & learning at once. Both teachers were very knowledgeable and professional. I am 2 weeks away from taking HSK4 and after studying at Keats I feel very comfortable. I am studying to take HSK5 next.

 

2) Cost

I had compared few programs before settling on Keats. I looked at school in Beijing (Beijing standard accent is the best), Taiwan (I much prefer traditional characters) but at the end booked my study at Keats. Why? Price is seriously the best for 1 to 1 tuition. Do your own googling and you will come to the same conclusion

 

3) Location

Kunming is very pleasant and sunny city. I live in Seattle and was going in the winter so last thing I needed was some gloomy freezing place. There is a fantastic bookstore next to Green Lake (I bought the BEST manga in Chinese to read and amaing HSK prep books for fraction of what such books would had cost in US), beautiful Buddhist temple and super charming Green lake where you can rent a bike to ride. Unlike many other Chinese cities Kunming is not just smog and concrete ugly building streets filled with a sea of people staring at you (my first impressions of China lol). School is located super close to Walmart where you can buy food and convenience things. Especially at the beginning that's where I did all my shopping. Across the school there is a Chinese foot massage parlor which employs blind disabled people to do massage and its a great place to relax . City center is a 20 min walk away. So convenient. On the weekends I went to see largest cave lake in the world open to public (Jiuxiang Caves), went to Lijian snow mountain and saw the unique Shilin snow forest, and famous Yuanyang rice terraces that are so pretty people say they were built by fairies. All that is within 4-6 hour bus ride away and you can comfortably go yourself. So if you get tired of studying there are tons of fun things to see

 

4) Accommodations

I loved living inside the school and having only 3 min elevator ride to my class. After working in Manhattan and commuting 2 hours one way (car, train and then subway) I absolutely despise long commutes. So Keats commute was like my dream commute haha. School room was small, clean & cozy with a desk, tiny fridge and my own bathroom. I often stay at hostels when I travel internationally and this was much more than I expected. Meals were varied - and I am a vegan so I was a bit worried if I would be eating just rice. Plenty of vegetarian options & delicious. There is a gym nearby with daily yoga classes which you get a free pass so that was awesome too. Airport pick up and drop off was incredibly convenient, after a 27 hour flight in economy last thing I wanted was figuring out taxi and giving directions.

 

Okay what could had been better:

Just one thing - wish there were fresh salad options with each meal and not just fried veggies. I eat A LOT of fresh vegetables in US and not having salads took me a bit to get used to. But then again Chinese food does not generally have raw veggies or salads so its probably a norm. I supplemented by buying my own fresh veggies & fruits from Walmart produce aisle.

 

Conclusion: great school with great quality of teaching and great price. Would recommend it in a heartbeat. I am going back for 3 weeks to prepare for HSK5

 

[tatiana109]

Hi,

 

Keats school is not reliable. still don't have the money back. but ok, it's only the question of money, i have my dignity not to contact with that school no more.

 

Better if you make a different choice. I won't describe what happened cause I am afraid of crazy owner who doesn't know how to deal with Chinese pinyin and what actually it is.

 

[陳德聰]

@tatiana109 I think it’s probably not very helpful for you to expect most people to just take your advice with no understanding of why you are telling them to avoid this school. Especially considering what others have posted, I think it would be helpful if you explained your situation so that people can have a more full picture of why you didn’t like the school.

[ShelbyR]

I don’t know what problem Tatiana had so can’t comment.  However, I took 3 months of 2 hours a week online classes this past year with the owner Zu’er/Mandy.  Then another 8 months with Elsie, which is still ongoing.  Both teachers have been excellent and I’ve seen no issue with pinyin.  

 

I worked in Tianjin for 2 weeks in May and didn’t end up going back to Keats, but have signed up for another 3 weeks of one on one classes starting next month at Keats.  If something has slipped in their quality or management I’d notice. I’ll post when I get back. 

[Wippen (inactive)]

I just saw this thread on Keats School.

I have been to Keats school on two courses in 2016 and in 2017.

I really enjoyed the first one and found the teachers and managerial staff (I don't mean the owners but the staff that take care of lesson plans, teacher briefing etc) very helpful. Especially I was impressed that the managerial staff were there to sort out day-to-day issues such as registration at police station, sim card etc. Everything was done to precision. (Joy, Jayden and Maggie are names I remember as being good)

 

Then the following year, there had been huge changes. The whole management team had gone. Only the owner was there and she had to deal with all of the admin side and also teaches at the same time. I noticed that there were a lot more students, which was nice, but the teachers now had to deal with all the aministrative issues as well as giving high quality lessons. That combination unfortunately did not work. The owner seemed to have too much on and did not have a proper track of my lesson plans. The teacher had do a lot of that work, for example remembering how many lessons I had had and what was paid for. Going with me to the police station to register (normally this was done by the admin staff), I never got my sim card as this was too difficult to find for the teacher (and I agree it is not her job) etc etc. This is not a criticism of the owner as she in fact is a very able individual. The school has potential but the growth it has seen needs to be managed.

 

Then this year, I was going to sign up again, but then received no response to my  query, whereas previously they have been quick and prided themselves on quick responses. This suggested to me that the owner is ower-worked and has not got the administrative backup you would expect. The increase in the number of students and the successful marketing of the School online is working. But it seemed to me, that not enough resources were then put into this extra demand. That was sufficient reason for me to choose another school this year for a month of intensive course. I didn't want to risk that my valuable time was not fully utilised (I only have a few weeks of vacation a year).

 

If Keats prove they can handle the large number of students they have managed attract I would go again next year. I really did enjoy a number of aspects of Keats which were: quality of teaching (I have been to three other schools in the past); teachers' qualifications, dorms two minutes from school and the meals. I did appreciate the excellent organisation of lesson plans and needs. But as I mentioned above this seems to have gone.

[Hitanshu Arora]

I emailed Keats Chinese School 3 days ago with many questions. I got an instant reply but the reply of only two my questions and the other questions were unanswered and also with the reply I got message only few seats left for June please book now.

 

WOW! I was very disappointed with the reply. Without even answering my question , they asked me to book now. why shall I do that? I was not happy about that, so I asked for my reply.

 

I got my second reply saying " We are sorry that the school is fully booked and we do not have a place for you. "

Me: " Sorry? School is fully booked for what dates? "

Keats Kunming Chinese School: January to August.

 

My note regarding the above conversation: How can the classes be full so quick? It is obviously not the truth so I got more curious and I replied to Keats saying " I am quite surprised how you deal with emails. This is not the way to reply to emails. Your reply could be that the school is full and we are not able to help you but we have another alternative etc. What kind of professionalism is that? You are spending a lot of money on advertising in youtube, your advert keeps popping up. If you are so full till August then why do you advertise?

 

Keats Kunming Chinese School: We are sorry that all Keats students are polite and well-educated. Rude people are not welcome.

Me: I am sorry to say that you are judging. I have two degrees from UK and USA and I already speak 4 languages fluently. I think you are extremely unprofessional. How could you send a message to a potential student that he is rude? I filled an online form and without answering all my questions, the first reply was that few seats are left and make a booking now. I think this is extremely rude. You are trying to get a customer so he/she can pay without explaining anything? Seriously? I do not believe this and then you reply that I am rude? Who are you to say regarding this? I will not close this matter here and I will take very serious action regarding your school and personally you Zier.

 

I did my research so I could report about the person behind the email. The person behind the email was the co founder itself Zier. I could not believe it!!  If the co founder is extremely rude and unprofessional then what the school will be like? To be successful, a good attitude is important, but to me it looks like that the co founder has a very bad attitude.

 

I believe all the testimonials are fake on their website? This obliviously doesn't sound like an legitimate school if the co founder is extremely unprofessional  and extremely rude?

 

 

[陳德聰]

That sounds a bit at odds with some of the experiences that have shown up in this thread. Since you believe their testimonials are all fake, would you mind uploading a screenshot of the email conversation you had? In the interest of credibility and fairness and whatnot.

 

Also I am curious what your questions were, and which ones were answered. These questions and their answers are probably good things for people to know when they are considering booking classes at Keats.

[Hitanshu Arora]

This reply is for the man with the Chinese name. I have just shared my experience on what happened. I did not make this up. I don't have all the time in the world to write such a long message but I spent this time because I felt I was treated very unfairly and it is totally unacceptable.

 

On a positive note I have got a reply from the co founder. She has actually apologized. That is very very nice of her. I don't know know why she apologized but it would be fair to let people know that she has apologized.

[imron]

As per Guidelines for Commercial Posters, this thread is about Keats, and is not a place to promote your own other schools.  If you want to promote other schools please do so in a separate thread.

[Hitanshu Arora]

Dear Admin,

Can you please remove all my messages? The co founder has apologized and everything is fine between us. Please delete all my messages regarding the keats school.