China to restrict college enrollments

[wushijiao]

********The Chinese government has agreed proposals to restrict the growth of college enrollments so as to improve teaching conditions and ease graduate employment pressures.

Higher education institutions saw student numbers hit 23 million last year, the highest in the world, an executive meeting of the State Council presided over by Premier Wen Jiabao heard on Wednesday.

Last year, colleges and universities enrolled 5.04 million students, 4.7 times more than in 1998.

***********

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2006-05/11/content_586869.htm

This seems sensible. It’s clear that the quality of teaching in China has been diluted due to the surge in student enrollment, and the desperate need to find new teachers (evidence: I’m a college teacher!). Hopefully, this will also help increase starting wages for college grads as well.

[gato]

http://www.p5w.net/news/gncj/200605/t314726.htm

中国将适当控制高校招生增长幅度 相对稳定规模

中新网5月10日电 中国国务院总理温家宝10日主持召开国务院常务会议，听取高等教育工作汇报。会议强调，根据当前高校的实际情况，有必要适当控制招生增长幅度，相对稳定招生规模。

教育部专门负责高校毕业生就业分配问题的高校学生司副司长刘大为，在接受《第一财经日报》采访时指出，“今年高校毕业生总体就业形势依然严峻。”全国普通高校毕业生将达413万人，毕业人数比去年多75万，估计今后每年增量都在60万左右。

而同时，劳动力市场供大于求的缺口已超过1400万，东、中、西部的区域结构性矛盾和高校学科专业结构矛盾同时存在。

据了解，截至2005年9月1日，全国普通高校毕业生初次就业率为72.6%，实现就业人数245万，年底就业率将达80%左右。教育部有关人士透露，2006年就业率将继续保持在“不低于去年同期水平上”。

http://education.163.com/06/0322/10/2CQG5U4U00291MUP.html

高校扩招的“八年之痒”

今年，中大、华工、广外、广州大学等多所高校均宣布不再扩招，广东今年第一批、第二批的本科招生将维持去年的招生计划。消息传来，应届毕业生也许稍感紧张，但细细思量，应感庆幸，因为他们进入高校后将可得到更有保障的教学资源。

翻查历史，我国高校的大规模扩招始于1999年。从1998年到2002年5年之内全国普通高校招生规模增长了2倍多，从108万人增长到340 万人；2003年,本专科招生规模达到380万人；2004年为447万人；2005年为475万人；2006年再增30万人，达505万人，是1998 年的4.68倍！

举一个真实的例子，广东某所非重点公办大学，1999年大扩招后新开的计算机系招收了250多人。大四的一节专业课上，老师提问了一个关于“C＋＋类的继承”的简单问题，连问了七八个学生，没有一个人能回答，再问全班，哑然。这位老师只好尴尬地转移到别的话题，从此不再有课堂提问。

http://education.163.com/06/0322/10/2CQG5U4U00291MUP.html

第十届全国人大代表、武汉大学党委书记顾海良认为，“现在大学生就业困难，总的来讲，可能和我们这几年的扩招没有必然联系。原因是你上不上大学，这些劳动力供给的总量是一定的，你上大学只是把这个劳动力退后了几年，我觉得这个没有必然的联系”。

现阶段国内对劳动力的需求结构真有这么不对称吗？现实是，大多数岗位需要的仍然是职业教育的学生。这就使得本来只需要职业教育的岗位却招收专科甚至本科教育的学生，本来只需要本科教育的岗位招收研究生甚至博士生，形成了如今用人单位的用人“高消费”。这不仅增加了学生的受教育成本，也增加了用人单位的用人成本，更形成了教育资源和人才资源的严重浪费。

[studentyoung]

Hopefully, this will also help increase starting wages for college grads as well.

I am not so optimistic. First, although the figure of enrollment can be restricted, it can’t help the basic condition of the surplus labor force. Second, even the figure of enrollment can be restricted, but it doesn’t mean that the quality of the graduation can be changed greatly or fit to the expectations of the labor market. Third, as the old proverb says, “where is a policy, where is a countermeasure 上有政策，下有对策”, if the government just restricts the enrollment, the students just still keep stay in high schools till they can go to university, which also triggers another big problem that more and more high school students accumulate in high school and worsen the competition of the entrance examinations for universities and colleges.

The scale of enrollment should be fixed in accordance with local conditions and controlled at a stable level, while education of high school graduates and occupational training should be strengthened.

In addition, occupational and adult education needed to be boosted to ensure more access to higher education.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2006-05/11/content_586869.htm

In a long period, occupational training and adult education have been taken as the unofficial educational ways, and their quality is lack of supervision and authentication, so they haven’t played (and even can’t play) their important role in our society. Therefore, their status and effect are not recognized in public. In most Chinese people’s mind, the only official way of higher education is still to enter an official university or college, which is the well acknowledged best, effective and easiest way for employers to identify employees’ degree (sometimes, ability). And that is why so many high school graduates don’t want to accept occupational training and adult education and prefer to take much their prime time to pass the entrance exams.

In my opinion, to decrease the enrollment figure is just to ease the symptoms for a while, not to effect the permanent cure (治不治本), because it still hasn’t hit two crucial points 1 the quality of education, 2 students’ sustainable development.

Thanks!

[skylee]

I hope this is not too off-topic. I have read this article on the web and am not sure how true it is -> 內地學生能去香港就不要去北大

Comments?

[studentyoung]

也許有人會說，香港地方小，幾家大學掀不起大浪。這話恐怕難以站住腳。如今香港的八所大學，在內地招生基本還在一兩千人。以後是否會增加到上萬人？如果每年內地高中畢業生最優秀的一兩萬人被香港的大學挑走，內地還有哪個大學好意思說自己是“一流”？

这话说得太托大了些。还好，目前香港在内地招生还基本是一二千人，投入也只是一二千万港元。如果上万内地学子如万马奔腾向香港一拥而上，特区政府得准备多少纳税人的钱给这些学生，上亿港元？到那会子，香港市民（尤其是纳税人）得唠叨啦：“哇，我们纳税人的钱就给大陆的学生这样糟蹋啦？我们这里还有一半人住公屋啊，要到公立医院看门疹啊，要发综合援助金啊，哪不是要钱啊。这些大陆学生将来还留不留在香港工作还不一定呢，工作多久也不知道，钱就这样扔给他们？政府这不是在慷纳税人的慨吗？我们纳税人亏不亏啊？”——好像你们那个“城市论坛”节目有一回就讨论过这个问题。

另外，正如前北大校长蔡元培所说：“大学之大,不在大楼,在大师。”真正的一流大学所需要的不是一堆成绩好的学生，而是要一堆综合素质高的学生,还要有一堆大师，和一个开放的，公平公正的学术环境才行。注意，不一定拿者外国文凭的人就是大师。

所以，從香港的長遠利益考慮，其大學對內地人才恐怕是胃口越來越大。

所以，从香港的长远利益考虑，其大学资源最好还是肥水不流别人田，不然就是给别人作嫁衣裳了。另外，也别拿香港与美国比。在美国，大多数城市的生活节奏没有香港快，生活压力也没香港大，教育条件要比香港优越。当地有的是向穷人小孩提供免费午餐的中小学，连寒暑假也有免费午餐——你们香港是啥情况呢。所以人才多半愿意留美发展，而不太愿意留在香港。所以，香港的大学还是多考虑如何提升香港本地人才素质，并在挽留本地人才上多下工夫才是真。不然本地人才都不愿待在香港，到香港学习的内地学生又都在学习结束后纷纷远赴欧美，或者又回到内地，那时候才香港政府才真是竹篮打水一场空呢。

谢！

[gato]

到香港学习的内地学生又都在学习结束后纷纷远赴欧美，或者又回到内地，那时候才香港政府才真是竹篮打水一场空呢。

这使我有点惊呀，因为香港工资比内地高多了。你有这方面的数据吗？

[rose~]

There was an interesting article in the South China Morning Post on Monday about education and the labour market, entitled Labour produces a mismatch.

The article is subcription only, but the main points were that there is an "not enough cheap labour and an over-supply of highly educated people". According to the article, due to the one-child policy the pool of workers in the 15-24 age range is falling, and within that pool more and more are recieving higher education, however the countries growth is not based on a services market requireing higher education but labour-intensive industries.

It also mentions that the one-child policy means that parents are more likely to invest in a University education for their only child, and that often these parents missed out on a University education themselves because of Mao's Cultural Revolution.

The author, Mark O'Neill, predicts that this "labour mismatch" will result in production being moved outsde of China or further inland to provinces with lower-cost labour.

He does mention a possible positive effect in that the Mainland may begin exporting whitecollar workers in higher numbers.

I am no economist, but I he does seem to make some valid points. People I have met who recruit in Shanghai told me about being bombarded with CVs from over-qualified candidates whenever they put out a job advertisement. I wonder whether this new policy on admissions is related to plans for economic growth and the labour market.

[wushijiao]

Third, as the old proverb says, “where is a policy, where is a countermeasure 上有政策，下有对策”

Hehe. Well, the education industry is an industry. It will be hard to control the urge to recruit new students.

I think it will take quite a few years before the quality of teaching gets better, and the job situation gets better for China.

The massive expansion of college recruitment starting in 1998 is often portrayed as a gigantic and idiotic miscalculation. But I can’t help but wonder if flooding the market with cheap white collar workers was the original plan. China became the manufacturing floor of the world because it had such a huge pool of cheap surplus labor. Maybe now China is moving up the ladder, destined to be a sophisticated and competitive country in a wide array of businesses. Who knows.

[studentyoung]

The article is subcription only, but the main points were that there is an "not enough cheap labour and an over-supply of highly educated people". According to the article, due to the one-child policy the pool of workers in the 15-24 age range is falling, and within that pool more and more are recieving higher education, however the countries growth is not based on a services market requireing higher education but labour-intensive industries.

It also mentions that the one-child policy means that parents are more likely to invest in a University education for their only child, and that often these parents missed out on a University education themselves because of Mao's Cultural Revolution.

I am sorry, but I just can't accept the points in this article.

1. There is still enough cheap labour in China, but just because their toil has been exploited too hard, which make them finally realize that they have no hope to even survive (less say a bright future for their next generation) if things go on like this. Therefore a lot of them try to go back to their hometown to become a farmer again.

2. As far as I know, even the one child policy works so well in cities (especially in big cities), it is still hard to touch the grass root in many remote countries in China. And it is quite a common case for a countryside family with two or three children in China.

3. Since the poor conditions and fates have been seen in cities and countries, people try to urge their children to enter universities to avoid the hopeless and tragic fates as being a worker, especially a migrant work. In my opinion, that's the main reason for Chinese parents crazily urge their children to enter universities.

If our government really wants to change the situtation, there are some things it must consider.

Some policies aim at improving workers', especially migrant workers' welfare must be made quickly.

1. Ensure they can retire and have their pension no matter they are the local citizen or not, so that they can slightly feel the sense of safe in the future.

2. Ensure their children can accept education from primary school to high school and the educational fee must be kept in an affordable level.

3. Ensure that all workers can have a chance to accept lifelong education, so that they can have such an idea that they can keep improving their competition and have a better life if they work hard and learn hard.

However, the key pionts (and maybe the most difficutl point) here are how to improve the education quality and how to make people realize that we don't need the social development in "Great Leap Forward大跃进" style but to get to the ground and to lay a firm foundation.

Thanks!

[wushijiao]

I agree with your three points student young (三个改善重要思想). I’d also add that it would be good to improve the wages of teachers in rural areas who often make as little as 300-800RMB, and in some cases aren’t paid at all. The kids who grow up in that sort of environment will have a very difficult time competing with the kids in the cities who have better teachers.

I think Wen Jiabao said that primary and secondary education (义务教育) had been made free and guaranteed, but from reading 中国农民调查 it seems that schools also make BS excuses in order to collect illegal tuition from parents.

[studentyoung]

I agree with your three points student young (三个改善重要思想).

啊，惭愧，惭愧！当不起，当不起啊！我不过是个一个小黄毛丫头罢了，“重要思想”这个有份量的词，还是留给马克思，列宁和毛主席吧！我的话顶多就是“三个改善的建议”罢了。（Wushijiao老师，Studentyoung的脸皮还不算太厚呢！）

I’d also add that it would be good to improve the wages of teachers in rural areas who often make as little as 300-800RMB, and in some cases aren’t paid at all.

I can’t agree with you more, Wushijiao! But as far as the statistics on my hand, it is not a problem at all, as long as our governmental officials（政府公务员）can cut off their car subsidy and traffic allowance per month. As far as I know, a governmental official at the lowest rank in Guangzhou, called as 科员 section member, can have at least about 200 RMB per month as traffic allowance.

The kids who grow up in that sort of environment will have a very difficult time competing with the kids in the cities who have better teachers.

Your words are quite reasonable, but I think there are still a lot of students from poor countryside areas in universities and colleges and more have to drop out because they can’t afford the education fee, which means their educational base is not so far away from the kids in cities.

Thanks!

[wushijiao]

Here is a 南方周末 (Southern Weekend) article about the desperate situation that the massive increase in college students has produced in Qinghai province. The problem mainly comes down to:

1) More and more people are graduating from college.

2) The economy can’t absorb all the graduates, especially with downsizing of State Owned Enterprises.

3) Qinghai has a relatively high rate of the general student-aged population in college, compared to more populous provinces.

4) Families have often spent all their money or gone into debt in order to afford there child’s education.

http://www.nanfangdaily.com.cn/zm/20060525/xw/tb/200605250002.asp

[gato]

From your article:

http://www.nanfangdaily.com.cn/zm/20060525/xw/tb/200605250002.asp

据统计，西部12省区农村人口近2.9亿，人均年收入1966元，而青海省的贫困县数量全国最多，近两年青海省农牧民人均年收入只有1817元，在国家级贫困县甚至低于800元。但是，10年间，大学学费猛涨约20倍。

　　在全国“两会”上，程苏不止一次强调几个数据对比，“按平均水平计算，西部地区一个大学生每年支出7000元，这相当于贫困地区9个农民一年的纯收入！本科4年最少花费2.8万元，相当于贫困县一个强劳力35年纯收入！”

College tuition costs the same for schools in Beijing and Qinghai, but the average income in some rural areas of Qinghai is only 1/10 that of Beijing's. That's a problem.

[skylee]

Further to posts #4 to #6 above, this is on today's newspaper -> 廣東高考狀元嚮往香港升學

【明報專訊】到香港上大學，成為今學年內地高考學子最為嚮往的選擇，這股香港求學熱，從北熱到南。香港嶺南大學、香港理工大學、香港大學等高校的面試活動近日陸續在廣州進行，其中香港科技大學華南地區的招生於前日（8日）開始。來自廣東、福建等幾個省份的150多名尖子生參加了考試，其中不乏廣東高考狀元。

棄內地頂尖高校

廣東實驗中學畢業的孫貝貝同學今年廣東高考總分第一，是全省唯一一位第一志願報考香港中文大學的狀元，對報考香港的高校志在必得。孫貝貝在接受信息時報訪問時表示，她放棄內地頂尖高校而選擇到香港升學，「主要是考慮硬件問題，香港的教學設施比內地的好，教學理念也比內地的先進一點。而且，我希望到國外生活嘛，香港的生活方式和西方的比較像，所以覺得在香港更能體驗國外的生活」。

除硬件方面條件外，孫還「覺得在香港就業比較好，而且工資還很高呢，我希望能到他們的大公司大企業實習或工作」。據報道，孫貝貝在港大選擇的是「精算」專業，在香港中文大學選的是生化類的。

國際化環境吸引

今年北京高考理科第一名楊蕙心、北京高考文科第一名何旋北同時應試香港科技大學。內地學子熱衷報考香港的大學，絕大多數看重的是香港教育資源豐富、國際化環境、全英文的教學方式、有機會到國外以交換生的身分學習、接受國際化的教學薰陶等等。據香港城市大學負責內地招生的負責人對信息時報稱，從該校往年招收的內地學生看，只有7%回到內地工作，最終留在香港工作的佔29%，另有64%赴海外深造或工作。

據信息時報引述一位在香港工作多年的高校教師指，「內地學生大量進軍香港高校，當然會對香港就業帶來衝擊，而且改變了人口結構」。不過，他又認為，「從鯰魚效應的角度來說，適當引入非本地學生，對加強本地學生國際視野、增加危機意識都不錯。」

[gato]

據信息時報引述一位在香港工作多年的高校教師指，「內地學生大量進軍香港高校，當然會對香港就業帶來衝擊，而且改變了人口結構」。

Currently, it's only the cream of the crop who are coming to HK. They might affect the job market in elite industries like consulting, investment banking, and law, but probably the job market overall.

不過，他又認為，「從鯰魚效應的角度來說，適當引入非本地學生，對加強本地學生國際視野、增加危機意識都不錯。」

What is "危機意識"? A sense of crisis? It sounds strange that increasing a sense of crisis among HK students would be a good thing. It would be a good thing for them to feel challenged, but isn't crisis a little strong?

[studentyoung]

孫貝貝在接受信息時報訪問時表示，她放棄內地頂尖高校而選擇到香港升學，「主要是考慮硬件問題，香港的教學設施比內地的好，教學理念也比內地的先進一點。

That depends on what you really want to major in. If you want to major in Chinese traditional medicine, Chinese ancient literature, Chinese ancient philosophy, Chinese archeology, biology (especially in genetics), petrochemical, aircraft navigation, cosmophysics, nuclear dynamics, agricultural technology, and so on, I don’t think the conditions in Hong Kong’s universities are better than in China mainland.

據香港城市大學負責內地招生的負責人對信息時報稱，從該校往年招收的內地學生看，只有7%回到內地工作，最終留在香港工作的佔29%，另有64%赴海外深造或工作。

Really? If so, how can these mainland students improve Hong Kong’s population structure?

What is "危機意識"? A sense of crisis? It sounds strange that increasing a sense of crisis among HK students would be a good thing. It would be a good thing for them to feel challenged, but isn't crisis a little strong?

I think the writer means that it is a good thing to stimulate the Hong Kong students to study hard by show them how great their counterparts from mainland, so that they might understand that they should not underestimate mainland students’ ability and talent.

Thanks!