Chinese compound words that have deep meaning

[Ian_Lee]

I would say that the following Chinese compound words have deeper meaning than their English equivalence:

(English) (Chinese)

Accident -- Out of Expectation

Irony -- Spear and Shield

Crisis -- Danger and Opportunity

[smithsgj]

You don't normally get exact semantic equivalence across languages. Thus, the meaning of apparently equivalent words and phrases is rarely exactly the same; the usage is almost always slightly different, and there are always cases where a different "equivalent" word would do the job better.

But "deeper" meaning? I'm not sure I know what you mean by that. Yiwai may have a more fine-grained meaning than accident; the fact that there exists the almost synonymous shigu seem to back that up (both these words, perhaps, occupy more or less the same semantic space as accident).

Do you mean "deeper" because of what the etymology may conjure up when the words are used? Like "oh no, something out of expectation has happened!" If so, I disagree. Yiwai describes pretty much the same event or phenomenon as accident, not other unexpected happenings. But anyway that would be be broader, not deeper.

(I think weiji could be analysed as "potential for danger" don't you? And maodun is a totally frozen metaphor)

[trooper]

I think Chinese is often more colourful than English but I'm not sure about it being deeper. "Mao dun", for example, doesn't convey the same range of meanings that "irony" covers in English.

[roddy]

Irony -- Spear and Shield

"Mao dun", for example, doesn't convey the same range of meanings that "irony" covers in English.

Not so much 'deeper' as 'different', isn't it? Maodun is something along the lines of conflict / contradiction, while irony is 反话 or 讽刺. I can't think of any situations where you would translate irony to maodun or vice versa.

Roddy

[trooper]

I think even 反话 and 讽刺 don't adequately translate "irony".

[Ian_Lee]

"Mao Dun" -- "Spear and Shield" actually means more like a paradox than an irony in English.

But I would say it is hard to find an English equivalence for this ancient Chinese word.

Even though its meaning is hard to fathom, "Mao Dun" is easier to explain to kids than either irony or paradox.

When I cited the phrase "use your spear to thwart at your own shield", my grade school daughter understood the compound word's meaning right away.

[trooper]

Doesn't it suggest contradiction?

[roddy]

Irony -- Spear and Shield

"Mao Dun" -- "Spear and Shield" actually means more like a paradox than an irony in English.

Make up your mind, Ian - your shield is thwarting your spear.

Roddy

[skylee]

矛盾 = contradiction, conflict

No???

[Ian_Lee]

矛盾 does not really mean a conflict if you mean a conflict between two parties.

It refers more to a person's character or how a matter is handled or how a scenario is evolved.

But 矛盾 sometimes can also carry the implication of irony or sarcasm if you are teasing at somebody.

Is contradiction a proper equivalence of 矛盾? I ain't sure but I guess that may be what is stated in the dictionary.

[Ian_Lee]

For weiji, I think it should be elaborated as "danger and opportunity" rather than "potential for danger".

Actually this compound word is often used in those brainstorming sessions held by the Japanese companies.

[roddy]

I guess that may be what is stated in the dictionary

It is. I most often hear it in 社会矛盾, social contradictions, which I think is usually a nice way of saying 'people aren't happy about this'.

Roddy

[Ian_Lee]

Roddy:

矛盾 can be interpreted as ironic in cases such as:

(In Chinese)

This guy is very 矛盾 that he claimed he prefers slim girl but he married a fat lady.

(In English)

It is ironic that he ................ (In such case "ironic" is a better choice than "contradictory")

[Quest]

Roddy:

矛盾 can be interpreted as ironic in cases such as:

(In Chinese)

This guy is very 矛盾 that he claimed he prefers slim girl but he married a fat lady.

(In English)

It is ironic that he ................ (In such case "ironic" is a better choice than "contradictory")

I would prefer 讽刺。

[ax]

maodun is dillematic no?

what does irony have to do with iron?

ax

[smithsgj]

> what does irony have to do with iron?

not a lot:

[French ironie, from Old French, from Latin rna, from Greek eirneia, feigned ignorance, from eirn, dissembler, probably from eirein, to say.

[nnt]

"矛盾" is also a much used word in dialectics and marxism, and means "conflict" although always translated by "contradiction" in this sense (see "矛盾论"/ "On contradiction" by Mao Zedong)

[ananda]

I think even 反话 and 讽刺 don't adequately translate "irony".

how about "指桑骂槐" or "嘲弄"? what's the english's explaination

of irony?