Undergrad degree in China

[Guest Mrs. Max Powers]

Can someone (esp. w/ personal experience) recommend a good university to get a BA in China? I know BCLU is popular, but I don't know much past that. Has anyone studied in Dalian or Qingdao? Any recommendations or web address (in English) would be appreciated.

Has anyone attended Peking U? What are their entry requirments like?

I'm probably intermediate spoken and beginners written Mandarin. I don't think I could pass the HKS 6 for another year. Is Chinese the only thing I can study w/o the HKS 6?

[ChouDoufu]

Actually, BLCU isn't so popular for westerners getting a BA. Most people would prefer to go to Tsinghua or Peking U. Those are famous universities so graduating from them has prestige even though entry requirements are not particularly strict for undergraduate study.

You need a 6 or higher on the HSK to study a major besides Chinese at all of the big universities, but I believe qualifications might be lower at other universities.

[Guest iunknown]

http://edu.china.com/zh_cn/gaokao/zhiyuan/906/20020513/10259417.html

My translation:

Ranking of BA:

1 Peking Univ.(beijing) 17.97

2 Fudan Univ.(shanghai) 15.95

3 University of Renmin(beijing) 15.72

4 Nanjing Univ.(NanJing) 14.98

5 Wuhan Univ.(Wu Han) 14.24

6 Zhejiang Univ.(Hang Zhou) 12.38

7 Beijing Normal University(beijing) 11.02

8 East China Normal University(Shanghai) 9.52

9 NanKai Univ. （天津）9.47

10 Xiamen Univ.(厦门） 9.13

For Dalian and Qingdao, I'm sorry to say there is no good BA program.

I hope it helps. For future information, PLZ reply:D

[ChouDoufu]

Tsinghua is number 16 (???) on that list, but most Chinese people I know would put it in the top 4. And it would definitely be an excellent school for studying math, science, engineering, computers.. Peking University is better known for it's Liberal Arts programs..

[aristotle1990]

Hate to dig up old threads, but do you guys think it would be possible to get a B.A. in China and then get into a top law school in the U.S.? (Assuming your grades and LSAT scores are above average for the school you're applying to, and that you are otherwise generally capable.)

[gato]

do you guys think it would be possible to get a B.A. in China and then get into a top law school in the U.S.? (Assuming your grades and LSAT scores are above average for the school you're applying to, and that you are otherwise generally capable.)

It might work, but probably only if you go to a school like Peking University or Tsinghua, get good grades and a very high test score. Admission committees are going to be skeptical towards anyone graduating from China, so you'd have to have top notch credential on paper to convince them. How were your SAT scores? LSAT is similar to the SAT in nature, so your LSAT score is likely to be correlated to your SAT.

[aristotle1990]

Well, I'm not going to consider it unless I get into Beida.

Anyway, I got a good score on the SAT, with an 800 on the reading section (), so I'm counting on a stellar LSAT score. I'm just somewhat worried that if my GPA isn't up to snuff, they'll look down upon my transcript, even if it's typical by Chinese standards.

So I either have to transfer to a cheaper American state school or get a B.A. in China (which I'm guessing means two more years of school, but which is nonetheless a really wild thing to do, even if it hurts my chances of getting into law school).

Edited August 20, 2011 at 03:43 AM by aristotle1990

[gato]

With your background, I think you have a great chance of making it work. How are you liking college in China so far? Wushijiao's mentioned on this board that he thought the Fudan international relations course to be less intellectually stimulating than one would have expected, given that it's a top school.

You might want to join totoo, an online forum for Chinese law students and young lawyers. There's a lot of discussion about applying to American law schools there, both JD and LLM programs.

http://www.totoo.org/

University of Chicago is a great school. Its undergrad curriculum is pretty hard-core. I would have loved to have their required freshman courses on the classics, though. I've visited a couple of times, but didn't like the city (and its weather) as much. Did you have a major yet?

PM me if you'd like to discuss in more detail via email.

Private university tuition in the US is ridiculous nowadays. They should really be cutting tuition now that the financial bubble has burst.... The market for US$40,000 a year college education (plus $10-15K for living expenses) has collapsed for all but the top schools, I think.

Edited October 14, 2009 at 04:08 PM by gato

[wushijiao]

With your background, I think you have a great chance of making it work. How are you liking college in China so far? Wushijiao's mentioned on this board that he thought the Fudan international relations course to be less intellectually stimulating than one would have expected, given that it's a top school.

Yes, but if I were to do a BA in a Chinese university, I think law might be my top choice. You 'd have great language skills, and could go to an American law school afterwards, or work in the NGO world or go into business. Plus, the Chinese legal community is more progressive than most other disciplines, I think.

[wushijiao]

If you're worried about getting into a top tier law school, I'd bet that once you started your BA, you could intern at some really amazing places back in the US if your Chinese skills were good enough to do original research/translation. That might be one way to utilize your competitive advantage in Chinese skills towards getting impressive credentials from a law school's perspective (although I'm just guessing, I haven't gone to law school myself).

As gato said, I think graduating with $150,000 dollars in debt makes no sense. A school like Beida might be a good alternative, cost-wise.

[aristotle1990]

Thanks for the advice, guys. I guess I'll apply and see what happens.

[zerolife]

@aristotle1990

One concern as someone who has taken classes at Tsinghua (Tsinghua and Beida are the two "dream school" of every Chinese and thus on the same level) and right now thinking about law school.

I think more than "regular" graduate school, US law schools put a lot more value on high undergrad GPA. You seems to be a smart guy but you gotta realize that your classmates at Beida will be the best of the best in China, by far smarter (at least book smart) than your average Havard/Yale student. Yeah a lot of them are slacking up after Gaokao but they still have the discipline and brainpower that's very rare in Western countries. Added your language handicap, I doubt you will be able to pull a high enough GPA for a T14 US law school.

I don't think Chinese universtities (even Beida and Tsinghua) get the recognition they deserve in Western countries. If you plan to attend a Chinese law school or permanently camp down in China, then doing Bachelor in China may make sense.

However, if only money is your problem, have you thought about universities in Europe?

[kdavid]

do you guys think it would be possible to get a B.A. in China and then get into a top law school in the U.S.?

I got a good score on the SAT, with an 800 on the reading section

Why would you even consider a Chinese school? You're not going to get a fraction of the education here that you would get back home.

My advice, if you're serious about your career and getting into a good law school: stay at home and get your BA there. Degrees here in China are (mostly) not worth the paper their written on.

[OneEye]

I'll vouch for what kdavid said. Most top schools in the US will only accept you on a provisional basis if you have a BA from a Chinese school. Even if you're trying to get into a Chinese Studies grad program and have a BA in Chinese from a Chinese school. Some won't even accept you unless you've done a year of grad work or even have an MA from a Chinese school.

[yonglin]

Many students from top Chinese universities are accepted into and do well in graduate schools in North America, so clearly there is some decent education to be had even there. On the other hand, I have the impression that the Chinese education system is (for now) a lot better at teaching technical material (e.g., science, engineering) than liberal arts (which might be more useful for law school admissions).

Apart from quality matters, I would worry that the university would go too easy on foreign students: since you'd be a significant source of revenue, it's not like they would ever kick you out (or even fail you), even if your academic performance is terrible. This will reduce the value of your qualification.

Moreover, unless you're doing something that you simply cannot study at an American university (say, Chinese literature, not a Chinese degree), everyone would wonder why on earth you chose to study in China (ardent communist? social outcast?).

There are many excellent state schools in the US. There are also merit scholarships. Given your credentials, I'm actually surprised that no decent US schools would give you a "full ride".

[cui ruide]

I've never really looked into it myself, but I imagine law school and the study of law is a very language-oriented field of study. I wonder how it would look that half or most of your undergraduate study/testing/writing were done in a second language... Yes, impressive to most people, but practical for indicating your ability or preparedness for an English-language law program? I don't believe American schools--of any level--admit Chinese nationals and American nationals based on the same criteria, and maybe not for the same reasons either... My point is--I wouldn't take it for granted that just because Chinese nationals are admitted to American law schools only having a Chinese BA, that the same opportunity applies for you. Now if you wanted to go the whole 9 yards and study law post-grad in China...

It might be a good idea to pose this question to anAmerican law school-oriented bbs, or even ask someone in admissions for a law school you're thinking about in the States..

[anonymoose]

Judging by the chinese level of the average foreign (mostly Korean) law undergraduate at Fudan, it seems the requirements are not particularly high.

As for getting into a school in the US, I think you'd be best contacting them directly. At least then you'll get a definite answer.

[gato]

It's a good idea to write to law schools and ask them what they think about your plan. I don't think they would necessary view it negatively. Law school admission is very numbers oriented, so as long as your GPA and LSAT score are high, you have a good chance of admission, even if the reputation of your undergrad school might not be so stellar.

I don't think undergrad education at large public universities in the US is all that great, either. I went to Berkeley. While I loved the city, I thought the undergrad education there only so-so. The classes were too large and the quality of the student body was uneven (probably not going to match what you experienced at University of Chicago). I personally would have loved to try out what you are thinking about. I skipped most of my classes my first two years at Berkeley as a biochemistry major (though I kept a GPA of 3., so Beida might have worked out better. Indeed, I did think about doing an exchange program with Beida, but after hearing so much about the turn towards materialism of the post-Tiananmen generation of Chinese college students, I didn't seriously pursue the idea.

To make this work, I do think you have to be very self-motivated and very capable of teaching yourself. Your classmates at Beida will be brilliant, but many of the teachers might just be mediocre. It's the phenomenon of 一流学生，三流老师 that's often a complaint of students at top schools in China. Teaching salaries are much too low at Chinese universities. The average Beida professor probably makes 5000 RMB per month. It's not enough to raise a family on, and not a respectable wage for someone with that level of credential. Nevertheless, Beida probably still has more than its share of good professors. It should be a good experience if you are ready for it.

Edited October 16, 2009 at 03:35 PM by gato

[lixiang]

I currently study in china and i have 2 friends getting ready to go to law school in the US. so i think it is possible. I am also an American and am considering finishing my degree in China but I would lose some years on my degree. So good luck