No! numerals

[maxberge]

delete

Edited February 9, 2010 at 02:48 AM by maxberge

[gougou]

The arabic system is not only understood, but has been made the standard a couple of years back. IIRC, the Chinese characters for numbers now only are used in (printed) speeches by the highest ranking officials.

Similarly, gestures are not only understood but widely used. (Bar markets, where everybody uses a calculator for the same purpose)

Finally, yāo as a way of pronouncing the number one has nothing to do with telephone conversations. I'm guessing you're confusing it with telephone numbers, where you would normally (yet not compulsory, I believe) use it. When counting, you have to use yī. I.e. to say "one student", you can never use "yao ge xuesheng", no matter whether you're on the phone or not.

[wai ming]

I remember my textbook in high school said that people use yāo instead of yī when giving telephone numbers... but in my experience, I have never ever heard anyone use yāo instead of yī for that purpose, or any purpose, in fact.

[roddy]

You definitely hear it in phone numbers, hotel / office room numbers and bus and train numbers. Not sure if it's used all the time though.

[Ding Yiyi]

My prof was talking about yao1 vs. yi1 a few weeks back, she said that it is ONLY used because yi1 and qi1 have such similar sounds, so therefore is only used in situations like phone numbers where there are lots of numbers in a row.

As to the "不-verb" question, it is more gramatticaly correct to use 不-verb, but if you just use 不 alone, it will be understood.

[JonasL]

Like Roddy said, yao is definately used in phone numbers, especially if there's more than one nr 1 in the phone number, for instance

0012 567111, if you'd say "yiyiyi" then it would be unclear cause it sounds like "yiiiiiiii"

so they use yao.

for a Chinese person, I guess, the difference between "yi" and "qi" is big enough, they wouldn't use yao for that reason.

[Ding Yiyi]

I'm just explaining it how my prof explined it to me, she said its like enunciating the point, especially for long, complicated numbers like those used for phones.

[roddy]

I've always read it's because of the potential for yi/qi confusion, but the yi yi yi confusion sounds almost more plausible to me.

My dictionary only specifies when it can't be used - cannot be combined with other numerals, nor be followed by a classifier. Also means one dot on a dice.

With bu, I think if you leave out the verb you run the risk of sounding curt - think of the difference between answering 'Are you coming tomorrow?' with 'No', and 'No, I'm not'.

[JonasL]

I just came back from my gf, she's a Beijing native speaker.

I asked her about why Chinese use yao instead of yi in phone numbers, she said she didn't know, but it was surely not because of the possibility of confusing yi for qi

they are 2 totally different sounds, if they would confuse them, then I guess China would have some worse problems than just handing out wrong phone numbers ,yi-qi, yin-qin, ying-qing, ...

plus my Chinese Grammar teacher ( Belgian guy ) told me it was for the "yiyiyi" reason

He's got Advanced HSK A, so If he'd tell me Chinese in fact don't eat rice at all, I'd believe that too.

( yes, I am gullable. )

[Ding Yiyi]

Hey, i'm just explaining it how it was explained to me. It really doesn't matter if you use yao or not, it is my understanding that you use it when you want to make sure there are no mistakes on the recieving end of whatever string of numbers you're giving out. Use it how you will.

[Mugi]

but it was surely not because of the possibility of confusing yi for qi

This is the very reason that every Chinese lecturer I've ever had or book that touches on the subject gives though...

[roddy]

There's also this

因为以前在铁路上 发车 接车 数字0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 容易混淆,所以 1被喊做 幺 7被喊做 拐 0被喊做 洞

So it stems from when people were shouting numbers around railway lines? Never heard of guai and dong for 7 and 0 though.

[JonasL]

I don't know why they use it either, I'm just telling you what my teacher told me, not trying to contradict anybody.

I find it strange that they only use it for phone numbers & other numbers that don't really have a great impact if sombody'd misunderstand you.

in figures up to billions they don't use 幺, misunderstanding your 7 billion paycheck for a 1 billion one would be slightly worse than to have to ask somebody to repeat his phone number the next day.

[Ding Yiyi]

It isn't used for big numbers, it's used for long strings of numbers that people are in the habit of rattling off rather quickly. This is why people use 幺 for phone numbers. This is also why people don't use 幺 for their "billion 人民币 paychecks." It is a word literally invented to reduce confusion.

Phone numbers can have a great impact on life, they can be the difference between contacting someone for groupwork, or being late. I know that in English I try to enunciate every number for my cell, otherwise the huge amount of groupwork that goes into college will all be late, or of low quality because we wern't able to contact each other on time.

[hpanda]

"1被喊做 幺 7被喊做 拐 0被喊做 洞"

This is true for the communications between military units to avoid confusing.

[Long Zhiren]

2) Concerning numerals and counting, do all the chinese people understand the arabic system (0123456789) ? Will a taxi driver or a street seller understand the hand gesture system? Are prices displayed in the huāmǎ system in chinese markets ? Is it okay to say "yī" instead of "yāo" in a phone conversation?

I learned that the pronunciation "yāo" for "one" occurs in Mandarin mostly in the north of China; but its use is becoming more and more standard. I don't believe that I've ever heard it used in Taiwan.

I don't know if this is related, by I also know that the northerners like to refer to a youngest child as "老 "yao"" instead of "老 "di.""

The hand gesture system seems to have at least one quirk in it. Chinese people often use the two index finger sign of the cross for "10." But of course, in Chinese, "10" looks like this: "十" ...and I thought the people in the street markets were not bargaining but trying to ward off vampires ...

[liuzhou]

I learned that the pronunciation "yāo" for "one" occurs in Mandarin mostly in the north of China

It's standard down here in the far south, sunny Guangxi.

[kudra]

Regarding Use of yao1

48 seconds into this audio file from David and Helen in China.

http://classes.yale.edu/chns130/Listening/Audio/08text.mp3

“。。。地点：中文系大楼110室”