You Chinese are amazing!

[Hero Doug]

Sorry for the long reply time, been busy,

in fact you could probably argue it is due to that cultural revolution that hero_doug has noticed what he has

You really need to get out more!

All I have to say to these two things is that I definately expected to see more then I have. And I think this addmittidly bias article sum's up why I'm just not finding the culture I had hoped to see.

[liuzhou]

I'm just not finding the culture I had hoped to see.

Well, if you come looking for your preconceptions, you're bound to fail! Open your eyes and look at the real Chinese culture which is rushing around you! And get out and actually look!

Don't look for what you expect!

[Shadowdh]

Don't look for what you expect!

Thats such a great quote for so many reasons... spot on...!!!

[liuzhou]

Thats such a great quote for so many reasons... spot on...!!!

Just please don't tell me that it would make a great tattoo!

[Shadowdh]

Dont worry... I will just recommend it at proverb level...

[Hero Doug]

Don't look for what you expect!

Don't mistake what I've said, I would have definately liked to see more of the traditional culture China is famous for, but too much of it's been erraticated by the "Four old's campaign". What's left of the culture is slightly disappointing.

I've seen everyone eating from the same dishes, and the traditional dancing and singing and costumes. It's all very nice.

I've even seen the people pushing fruit/food cart's on the side of the road, and load's of people sitting outside dining on sidewalks. But I wouldn't say that's culture, it's poverty. Many of the people I've talked to aren't outside dining because it's a nice atmosphere, a lot of them are too hot and can't afford air conditioning.

The child slave trade is also another nice part of the culture (sarcasim). Seeing drugged up sleeping babies or children with limb's hacked off being used as tool's of begging in definate insight into the culture. Just forget the fact no one helps these children at all.

I've also seen culture when it come's to family. A good friend of mine's family forced her to take a design course so they can literally use her in her uncles company and make money for the family. No regard for what she want's. Their picking her husband, job and life to make as much money as they can from her. And they've even admitted this indirectly.

I've seen the culture of love, where priorities are job, status and wealth, then love and looks. It's sad that my friend felt the need to marry someone she didn't love, and lives cities apart because in her culture, at her age, if she had another boyfriend she'd be "a bad girl".

To quickly end the rant with work. The fact that everyone pushes their responsibilities off to the new employees waiting for their turn at the top so they can do it themselves show's a culture of lazieness in the workplace. But that's not where the workplace culture ends. There's lying and deciet to no end.

I was personally told I can teach sex education by the acidemic coordinator, and luckly for me, a friend tought it first. Two week's later he was brought into the office and was threatened with dismissial for doing it, because the acidemic coordinator lyied and pushed her responsibilities to him to "save face".

I've seen A FEW sparkling gems of good culture here. There are some nicely decorated buildings, and the service in high end restaurants is great. In shop's/low end restaurants and markets I'm met with nothing but impolite answers and people trying to cheat me out of my money.

I've also encountered people that are genuienly nice and want to have a conversation or spend time with me, not "the foreigner". But again, this has been heavily outweighed by all the people that just want to practise their English and use me like some tool and totally forget I'm a person. And many of them have the gull to say "I just want to practise my English".

The best example of good culture I've seen here is the respect for the eldrely. This I admire and wish was a little more widespread.

The Point

As you can see, my experience with Chinese culture has been overwhemingly negative, and I'm still trying to find the positive. Maybe you can be my guiding light.

[liuzhou]

Please tell me you are not an English teacher!

[billybot]

As you can see, my experience with Chinese culture has been overwhemingly negative, and I'm still trying to find the positive. Maybe you can be my guiding light.

Has it ever occured to you that your negative experience is due to your own extremely narrow perception of reality, and not the fault of an entire nation and race of people! Talk about epic egotism!

Why people travel to other cultures only to press their own beliefs and values upon them is forever baffling to me. How can you even leave your house in the morning without being disgusted at every person and situation that doesn't fit into your narrow scope of life?

And the idea that someone else could be your "guiding light" is just plain ridiculous! This post can't be serious. If it is, please go back to the USA or whatever enclave you are from; get back to your regimen of wheel of fortune and grapenuts: it will be safer for you and the world!

[wushijiao]

Hero Doug, it sounds to me like you might be experiencing the phase of culture shock in which you are repelled by everything you see. That’s normal. The thing to keep in mind is not to get overwhelmed by negative experiences.

Take a look at the diagram here. It helps to know where you "are" in the culture shock process.

http://www.ukcosa.org.uk/images/shock.pdf

Anyway, the key to enjoying China is to maintain a positive outlook and try your best to understand people from their point of view. Good luck!

[Hero Doug]

Let me say this in another way I hope you'll understand this time.

No where in the article did I say I've never seen good people or nice aspects to this culture. In fact, the reason this conversation started was because I said I had hoped to see more of the traditional culture that was erradicated by the Four Old's campaign; and that it was a bit of a disappointment.

Has it ever occured to you that your negative experience is due to your own extremely narrow perception of reality, and not the fault of an entire nation and race of people! Talk about epic egotism!

No, it isn't. The problem here is now you're generalizing. No where did I say anything like "The Chinese are evil for doing this", or "The Chinese are rude for doing this". I never once implicated an entire nation for doing anything, and I never would because I know it wouldn't be true. Don't put word's in my mouth just because you can't think of what to say.

Why people travel to other cultures only to press their own beliefs and values upon them is forever baffling to me.

I'll admit, I did write my last post in a negaive light. I think I can explain my reasoning.

I don't care (Well, sort of, it's always a hurtfull experience) that the man pointing and laughing at me has never seen a foreigner and think's "I'm interesting". I really see that happening to countless other foreigners who will go home and tell everyone about their experiences. This kind of experience will give China a negative image worldwide, which will ultimately hurt it.

Or, the many people I know who were forced into loveless relationships by their families. I know their parent's want them to have a secure future and a good life, and it really is done out of love for their children. But I don't just see the love the parent's have for their children, I see a lot of Chinese men who can't get a wife because they don't have a good job. And of the many people I've meet in this sistuation, many of them said they weren't really happy or in love. While this aspect of the culture will secure a childs future better, it'll also create a lot of negative effects for the people in the culture. I think think it's too big a scarifice, but no where did I say the whole nation is wrong for doing it.

Do you see my point of view a bit better here. It's not that I don't understand the reasoning, it's that I can also see many of the things I've seen negatively affecting China, or people in China, and thus, don't like it.

Why people travel to other cultures only to press their own beliefs and values upon them is forever baffling to me.

Any belief that hurts the country or the majority of the people in the country can't be a good belief now can it.

And the idea that someone else could be your "guiding light" is just plain ridiculous! This post can't be serious.

That was meant as more of a joke, but if you want to take it seriously, making a few simple suggestions could help introduce someone into the culture. Saying "open your eye's" is probably the worst suggestion I've had yet as how to experience Chinese culture. Saying a few of the things you like about the culture here would be of great help.

And for wushijiao, thank you. You're a perfect example of my experience here in China. On this page here, I've had 3 poorly constructed, totally useless replies, and you post which was good.

That article was interesting, but when I see a part of the culture negatively affecting China I don't think it's my ideals that are making it appear wrong, it's just wrong.

[gougou]

don't think it's my ideals that are making it appear wrong, it's just wrong.

How do you judge that without using your ideals?

[Hero Doug]

As I said in the previous post, if it has a negative effect on the people, or the country, then what good is there in it, except for shelfish personal gain (Which I don't think qualifies as being good)?

For instance, one last example, I'm not sure what part of the culture this is infulenced by, maybe the workplace culture since it could be fixed by police doing their jobs (Don't say they don't have enough money, you'll see why below).

In a lot of the cities I've seen traffic is not well organized. Many drivers really seem to think they are the true owners of the road crossing multiple lanes of traffic, cutting people off, doing u-turns in busy streets, etc. Of course this is better or worse depending on what city you're in.

From what I've seen, local governments have had to set up barriers to keep drivers where they should be driving. Large barriers down the middle of roads to keep drivers on the correct side of the road. I've seen barriers to keep drivers off the pedistrain sidewalks.

Now, all this cost the local government a lot of money to buy the materials, set them up, and maintain them. This money could be better spent on hospitals or schooling.

If they hired a few more police officers to drive around looking for traffic infractions and hand out tickets, and kept them doing it forever, they would make money, and people would learn, hey, I can't do this or maybe I'll get in trouble here.

Pay money for barriers

Dangerous drivers and unsafe roads

-------

No apparent benefit

Hire police to ticket drivers, make money

help people to learn to drive according to the rules of the road

make roads safer

reduce the need for barriers

-------

apparent benefits

That's how I judge it, not from my personal views or ideals, but from logic.

[liuzhou]

There's nothing wrong with shellfish. They are nutritious and delicious.

[Hero Doug]

oops, typo.