Good all round text book series

[Dariush]

Hi!

I'm currently living in Taiwan and have studied Chinese (traditional characters) for the last two years and probably have an elementary/pre-int level. There is a course of study I want to do which requires that I have an advanced HSK level (at least a 9 - ouch!) - I am aware of how far away I am from this (and that I need to convert to simplified characters) but I plan to use the next 4 - 5 years to prepare myself for this.

In Taiwan, there aren't any text books which use simplified characters so I must buy my books on line - which is a pain as I can't flick through to see what I'm getting. As well as using the HSK materials, I intend to use a good series of textbook which would hopefully give me a bit more of a structured approach and improve my over-all Chinese. So I was wondering does anyone know of a good all-round series which is informative and interesting and has all of the levels from Beginner to Advanced?

So far I've seen a series called 'Contemporary Chinese' and one called 'Practical Chinese Reader' - I think. Are any of those good or should I consider annother series?

I'd really appreciate any advice anyone can offer.

[Weronika]

maybe

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/953-preparation-books-for-hsk&highlight=HSK

[Craig]

The Practical Chinese Reader is now out of date. The New Practical Chinese Reader has been released but will stop far short of the level you want to reach (currently it would bring you to around a 5 maybe 6 HSK). I'm not sure about the Contemporary Chinese series as i've never used them. Depending on cost i'd recomend trying some of the same materials IUP uses as it is considered by some to be one of the best chinese programs in mainland china. http://ieas.berkeley.edu/iup/curriculum_textbooks.html Remember their Level 1 is equal to someone who has studied full time for 2 years in the US. The books, while not cheep, are of a high quality and the Listening Text are not only challenging but interesting as well. I searched online and found samples from both the book and tingli and although i forget the site i was impressed moreso by them than anything i've found in Beijing. I plan to pick them up myself when i am back in the states.

[Dariush]

Thanks Zozovera and Craig!

So both 'Core Chinese Reading' and 'Chinese Listening Course' would be good choices to supplement HSK study?

I've noticed that at IUP they use different textbooks at different levels and that they have 6 levels - would you say that level 6 is on par with HSK advanced? Is there any complete series that takes the learner up to the advanced level or do you think that it's just as easy to use various text books?

[kudra]

a list of texts used yrs 1-4 at some of the more well known US university Chinese programs

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/8091-texts-used-in-us-university-programs

Don't know how this meshes with HSK prep.

I kind of like, A New Text for Modern China. The selections are in both Trad. and Simp. with vocab in pinyin.

You are probably past the level of David and Helen, but the complete audio is on the web for that series.

http://www.chinese-forums.com/showpost.php?p=65902&postcount=5

[Craig]

Level 6 at IUP as i understand it will top out the HSK (so 11). People who are in IUP level 1 test at HSK 5/6 depending on where their weak points are be it listening or grammar. Looking at the list Kudra posted it seems middleburry uses many of the same books in their year three chinese as IUP in their "level 1".

If the HSK is your main goal it might be best to get texts with that as an emphasis as some texts while they will generally help your Chinese overall will not be as helpful in boosting your HSK score do to different format of exercises and different ways of presenting grammar.

[Jive Turkey]

Dariush, you seem to have a realistic timeframe for achieving your goals. Since you are going to be spending a bit of time getting to where you want to be, I recommend just making a trip to Guangzhou through HK or Macau. Go to the large book store in Tianhe. They have quite a lot there. I studied for two years in Taiwan; I was shocked by the amount of stuff that is available from mainland presses when I first went to Guangzhou. Plan to spend a day or two in the store and be ready to spend a couple grand RMB to set yourself up for a few years of study. If you spend some time looking through the materials in the store, you'll be able to identify what's right for you. If you see an intermediate book in a certain series that is right for you just then, get it and then get the upper-intermediate and advanced books as well.

Craig, are you sure about IUP level 6 being at the top of the HSK scale? I've not studied at IUP, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I have known a few people who've studied through level 6 there. They were good, but I would say they were at more like the top of the elementary-intermediate HSK (an eight). I had a look at their materials. They weren't bad, but they lacked variety. The teaching philosophy behind them was a bit limited and dated. I have no doubt that an experienced teacher using those materials with a small group, as they do at IUP, could get good results with his students, but I think that many of the BLCU materials are superior. IUP is small and lacks the economies of scale for material development that a place like BLCU has. IMO, the advantage of IUP is the small classes, not the materials; if I were buying materials for self study, I'd lean more towards materials published by mainland university presses, especially those from BLCU Press.

[Craig]

I'm not sure for everyone but i know someone who tested at level 4 IUP and was a 9 HSK. Also where as BLCU intermediate most studied in the states for two years and it is a HSK 5 which would be the required to study at IUP again though it most likly varies person to person. My extrapolations after that were just an estimation since level 6 is all self selected it must be different for everyone. My biggest complaints about many mainland texts are the frequent errors in the explanation or typos in the grammar/text. Without a teacher to point those out it can get frustrating, these problems are getting much better though with newer text books. This seems to be a turning point for mainland texts as there are many great one out there but their is also a lot of rubbish.

[Dariush]

Thanks - wow! Before I was worried I didn't know what to get now and it seems like I've got plenty to choose from.

Kudra, would you rate 'A New Text for Modern China' as being above other materials such as:

- Core Chinese Reader

- Chinese Listening Course

- New Practical Chinese Reader

It doesn't matter if they won't mesh 100% with the HSK course itself (it would have just been an added bonus) as I know there are alot of HSK specific materials. My intention was that I work through one or two of the text book series that can improve a students over-all level, offer a structured approach to learning and focus on simplified characters - Iv'e just finished 'Practical Audio-Visual Chinese 1' which I found useful but it only uses traditional characters .

Craig, just as I was saying - if they did mesh with HSK that would have been great, just I wanted to up my over-all level before I start going through all the HSK materials - or do you think that students should start with the HSK materials as soon as possible?

Jive Turkey, I think your idea is really great and if I can get a few days holiday I now know where to go (at the moment I'm working a 6 day week - then again that's nothing too special in Taipei). After asking all the bookstores in Taipei if they could order Mainland text books or HSK materials - to which they said no, I had a look online and found a seller with a Chinese Language and Culture store in Beijing who has kindly offered me discount if I order alot of materials at once, the store has lots and lots of materials - so I thought I'd try my best to find out what's the best before buying blind.

[Jive Turkey]

Dariush, don't just plan your study based on what is in the HSK. While the HSK Elementary/Intermediate exam can be crammed for by practicing exam taking techniques and reviewing grammatical and usage problems that often appear on the test, I think it is safe to say that the HSK Advanced cannot be tackled in this way. The latter is not an exam that you will even get a 9 on unless you've already got good skills in at least 4 of the 5 papers. The HSK course books you see are mainly good for just exam strategies and self diagnosis of strong and weak points-and that's the better ones; most of them are just practice papers. The only thing that will prepare you for the Advanced exam is a few years of slogging it out with different kinds of learning materials. You need to be exposed to and to practice different kinds of spoken and written langauge genres. The books that have "HSK" on their spines will only get you through the last mile of the marathon, and you won't profit from using them unless you've already got pretty good language skills.

Craig I'm not sure for everyone but i know someone who tested at level 4 IUP and was a 9 HSK. Also where as BLCU intermediate most studied in the states for two years and it is a HSK 5 which would be the required to study at IUP again though it most likly varies person to person. My extrapolations after that were just an estimation since level 6 is all self selected it must be different for everyone.

I don't doubt that there are people who've studied at IUP who have gotten 10s and 11s on the HSK, but like you imply, once a learner gets to the advanced level, the program of study doesn't matter so much. It's more down to the student and what he or she wants from their language study. I get the impression that some advanced students at IUP are more concerned with improving their skills within the academic field they will be working in. Other students, probably the types who want to go into things like interpreting, might set a goal of all around native-like proficiency. I imagine that it is the latter type of student who might pull down a really high score on the HSK. I know plenty of folks in academia whose Chinese in their field is excellent, and who have good general Chinese, but who probably couldn't break above a 9 on the HSK Advanced. Even though the exam has its flaws, I do believe that getting an 11 takes nothing less than native like proficiency.

My biggest complaints about many mainland texts are the frequent errors in the explanation or typos in the grammar/text. Without a teacher to point those out it can get frustrating, these problems are getting much better though with newer text books. This seems to be a turning point for mainland texts as there are many great one out there but their is also a lot of rubbish.

My biggest problem with a lot of the newer and better books from BLCU is that they seem to follow a philosophy of the more exposure the better. A lot of the books in the 4 year degree series provide pretty well selected readings, but the writers don't do enough to exploit the language found in those readings. They seem to think that just piling it on will lead to acquisition. When authentic text is used as a launch pad for introducing vocabulary or grammatical points, the way it is done is still way too deductive. I get bored to tears reading the explanation first, examples later kind of format typically found in the degree program series.

[Dariush]

Thanks Jive Turkey! Yeah, I was thinking about that - I wouldn't neccesarily recommend an English student to study the IELTS or TOEFL exam materials for a long peroid of time either - as the most you can often hope to pick up is good exam technique.

I wasn't sure if it was the same with HSK or not so thanks for clarifying that for me. Now I can pretty much focus my time on improving my over all level and think about HSK later - a good few months before I need to take it.

I'm really glad I found this sight.

I think I better go and order some books now.

Again, thanks for the advice!

[Roee]

JiveTurkey,

Yesterday, for the first time, I got some HSK books and got quite a shock from how difficult it is (elem/inter level, not advanced.) Especially the required vocabulary. Insane.

These books lack the best tool that I'm looking for, and that is gradual repetition. Would you mind recommending some books, not necessarily for HSK? Thanks in advance.

[Jive Turkey]

Roee,

I know how you feel. I spent two years in Taiwan and had used up most of the materials that were available there. When I moved to HK and picked up a couple of HSK prep books, I got really frustrated because quite a lot of the stuff that is in the elem/int. exam just isn't covered by most programs in Taiwan. I didn't even know that better materials existed until I went to a large bookstore in Guangzhou one weekend. I'm a big fan of the 4 year degree series books published by and used at Beijing Language and Cultural University. Not all of them are great, but you're less likely to pick a crappy book if you're choosing from that series. They also publish some good books for their shorter term study programs.

If you can describe your situation, I'm sure that people here can give you some suggestions for materials to use. Are you in China or somewhere else? What can you do with the langauge right now? Are you currently taking classes somewhere, or are you self studying? Do you do any sort of language exchange or have a 1 to 1 tutor? Some materials are great for use in a group class, but are a big thud when used 1 to 1 or for self study. I and others could probably give you more pointed advice if you can tell us more about where you are in your studies.

[roddy]

Would second the recommendation for the four-year course books - there might be better options, but not in the same coherent structure.

Also, don't worry too much about being intimidated by the elem / int HSK - lumping those two levels together mean that the exam is bound to look terrifying to anyone at the elementary level. Design flaw, and while its very discouraging you just need to soldier on and do your best.

[Roee]

"Roee,

I know how you feel. I spent two years in Taiwan and had used up most of the materials that were available there. When I moved to HK and picked up a couple of HSK prep books, I got really frustrated because quite a lot of the stuff that is in the elem/int. exam just isn't covered by most programs in Taiwan. ...If you can describe your situation, I'm sure that people here can give you some suggestions for materials to use..."

Jive Turkey,

Well, I also spent a year studying in Taiwan and than moved to China only to find out a lot of the vocabulary in use is different as are the tonation, way of expression etc.. And of course the characters -- spent a long period of time with flashcards displaying only the characters, and realized the mistake just recently of not adding pinyin next to the characters. Since then I have split studying procedure into "absorbing" the characters and "learning" the meaning into two parts. Works ok.

During the daytime there's little opportunity.to use my Mandarin but now and than it's possible. Of what I've learned so far I can utilize pretty well and also listening comprehension is fine but it all comes down to vocabulary, in a way.

Roddy, thanks for your comment as well.