Unknown character

[sstone]

Hello,

I saw a character that seemed like the one i draw:

It was like this, I hope so, I only saw it for a second, if anyone knows what it means I would be grateful. I don't know a thing about Chinese language, I'm not even sure if the character is Chinese

Thank you kindly, and sorry if I'm not on a right forum.

Bye.

[liulianxiaoyu]

sometimes "操" means "fuck you" in spoken chinese.

[sstone]

Yes it's probably it.

Thank you, very interesting.

[middle kingdom]

The same Chinese character often has different meanings with different intonation while in English, it may be the different stresses of a word that differentiate the meaning. Here if you consider this character as a noun, then it has the first intonation and means practice, or physical exercises, or conduct. But if you consider it as a verb, it means to operate, to practise. It is only in recent days people invent a third meaning of this character which is equal to "f***" in English, and it has the fourth intonation then.

[jukebox]

It is only in recent days people invent a third meaning of this character which is equal to "f***" in English, and it has the fourth intonation then.

It was not 'invented', but actually was a substitute for '肏'.

[middle kingdom]

a substitute for '肏'.

so can you please explain the character '肏', about its usage and creation? we know "language is a system of arbitrary vocal symbols used for human communication" --but words are all invented.

[youpii]

maybe 操 cao1 (to hold)

[middle kingdom]

maybe 操 cao1 (to hold)

That's correct, youpii. It is a verb then. It means 拿着, 握着.

[Lu]

so can you please explain the character '肏', about its usage and creation?

This character consists of 入, 'to enter', and 肉, 'meat'. One of the few characters of which the meaning becomes completely clear from the elements of the character. I don't know how old it is, but I saw it used in the Hong lou meng, so it's not a recent invention. I wouldn't be surprised if it was very, very old, as from the beginning of time mankind has been engaged in the activity this character describes. It's used largely the same as the English 'f*ck', both as a verb and as a exclamation.

[zixingche]

I've learnt cao1 操 through the title of a piece of music for erhu (Chinese 2 string fiddle) called du2 xian2 cao1 独弦操 lit. one string exercise, so in this case it means exercise, or drill.

[middle kingdom]

That's very interesting, Lu. Now I have to reread the classic A Dream of Red Mansions to experience the entertaining character. And we can see from this character that why Chinese is called hieroglyph. But can you note the pronunciation of it? And how does cao become a "substitute" of '肏'??

[Lu]

肏 is pronounced cao4 (as far as I know--once someone told me it reads ru4, but I only heard that from that one person, according to most people it reads cao4). As it's a very bad word, and thus a dirty character, nowadays it's usually replaced by 操 (which then also reads cao4), because that looks less dirty & bad. 肏 can't even be typed on a lot of computers.

[zixingche]

Haha, enter+meat/flesh, that's so funny! But why was 肏 cao4 replaced by 操 cao4 ? It seems to me this would cause confusion with 操 (cao1) and has messed up a perfectly repectable Hanzi. I assume 肏 is slang or/and non-standard, so wouldn't be better to make up a new Hanzi to replace it and not just use an existing Hanzi.

[Lu]

messed up a perfectly respectable Hanzi

I assume that the problem was that this hanzi was anything but respectable.

It's like typing 'f*ck' or 'the F word': everyone knows which word is meant, and how it is spelled, but it looks a tad less dirty than writing the entire word.

[zixingche]

Cao1 操 must have been perfectly repectable before it was used for cao4.

I don’t think cao1 操 could have been anything other than perfectly repectable if it was used in the title of Du2 Xian2 Cao1 独弦操 which was composed by Liu2 Tian1 hua2 刘天华 in the 1930s. He is a major 20th century composer in China, he started the development of the erhu as a solo concert instrument.

Someone wrote that the use of 操 as cao4 is much more recent.

[student]

Isn't it also used in for Cao2 Cao1 曹操 of the Three Kingdoms?

[Strawberries513]

what does 曹操 mean exactly?? im asking cause JJ Lin has an album called 曹操 and I dont know what that means.

[middle kingdom]

Cao2 Cao1 (A.D.155-220) is the emperor of Kingdom of Wei. He is a great politician, strategist and poet at the end of the Han Dynasty (206 B.C.-A.D.220) when battles broke out and continued for a time among three kingdoms for the dominance of China.

"The empire, long divided, must unite; long united, must divide. Thus it has ever been." (Luo Guanzhong, "Romance of the Three Kingdoms") The three kingdoms are the Wei, the Shu, the Wu. I intend to think that his name "Cao1" has nothing to do with the meaning of "Cao4". To the contrary, when the word is read "Cao1", it often means conduct, or good conduct. And the song from JJ Lin expresses the admiration towards this ancient figure.

[gato]

I think it's because 操 is the only verb among all the other characters are pronounced cao. Another likely reason is that 操 is used in the interest of having a word that's easily recognizable to the average teenager, who are the most likely users of these words.

cao1 糙 操

cao2 曹 嘈 漕 槽 螬 艚

cao3 草 懆

cao4 肏

Another vulgar character that's usually different from its dictionary form is 屄 (bi1). It's often written as 逼 (bi1), e.g. 牛逼、傻逼。

屄 bī

<名> 女性外生殖器 [female genitalia;cunt]

[middle kingdom]

So there are mainly two reasons for this evolvement. One is the same pronunciation as Lu has mentioned earlier, and the other is that it is easier to remember by using a common character than the rare one.