Pronunciation of te4bie2 特 别

[Brendan]

Dajia hao

I have problems correctly pronouncing the te4 part of te4bie2 特 别. I seem to somehow hear the te sounding almost like ke or he when native speakers say it. Is that just my foible? Can someone please advise what the correct pronunciation is, and how to make the sound. Xiexie

Brendan

[gougou]

I have problems correctly pronouncing the te4 part of te4bie2 特 别. I seem to somehow hear the te sounding almost like ke or he when native speakers say it.

Rule #1 of Studying Chinese: Do not let yourself be influenced by native speakers.

There is such a variety of dialects and accents that you will always come across different pronounciations for certain words. I for my part always heard 特 with a t.

[NYC]

Perhaps some people aspirate strongly which may confuse you. Moreover the T sound in Chinese is not as "sharp" as the english one, the tongue contact point is slightly farther back.

[onebir]

To add further confusion, i'm pretty sure i heard someone reverse the tones when she really wanted to emphasize it, saying te2bie4. Of course when i asked her she swore blind she was doing no such thing.

[tanhql]

here's an attachment of how i say 特别(right click, as target as). in case you don't know, there are two ways to say 别 in this case: 2nd tone and natural tone.

tebie.WAV

[Brendan]

Thanx all for your help, especially Tanhql - i really appreciate the attached sound file.

I'll have to sharpen my listening skills!

[taibeihong]

I'm so glad to see someone else has heard "kebie" instead of "tebie"! My hearing is pretty good, so I really think there was a k there, or some very modified t. Does anybody have any information on this? Please note that the two of us have heard in in Beijing, so chances are it's not something you would hear in other places.

[Brendan]

Thanks for the feedback taibeihong - two sets of ears are better than one! But I'm surprised this question has attracted so little response. I imagine there are 100s of advanced learners and speakers, not to mention native speakers, who cruise through the forum, yet you're the only person to confirm hearing the same pronunciation. Does that mean no one else hears it? I don't understand ....

[wai ming]

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/7617-ke4-bie2

Personally though, I never heard te4 bie2 pronounced as ke4 bie2.

[Gulao]

What you're hearing is a velarization of the aspirated part of the Chinese "t" sound.

The notion is thus: "t" as spoken in pinyin is spoken with a puff of air after its release. "E," as spoken from pinyin in the Beijing dialect involves placing the back of the tongue near the velum, or the part of the mouth that you pronounce k, g, and the Chinese h. Thus, with the expulsion of air involved in the Chinese t and the proximity of the tongue to the velum, a velar fricative is produced.

I heard this once, myself. I actually use the pronunciation myself now, mostly because I think it sounds cool.

[chris(普通话学生)]

Errrm perhaps I am unique but the Mandarin t often sounds a little like English p to me.

Especially Jenny from Chinesepod.

[achiese]

I did hear few people say "刻別" which has the same meaning as "特別".

I have no idea which dialect is that, I think it may be some northern mandarin.

[Janedcm]

my review:

in mandarin, 特 its pronuncitation should be as "te" sound like the english letter t.

someone dont say it like tei or others , that is not mandarin.

[inowhavea]

My theory:

Sound position diagram

[back of throat] ---[ch k]--------[en k]----[ch t]-------[en t]----- [front of mouth]

To an ear trained for english, the chinese "t" can sound more like the english "k". It all depends on the distinguishable variance that the chinese t sound can have before becoming confused with the chinese k. The english sounds are shifted forward, so the English k and and Chinese t "zones" overlap.

Pinyin is only a representation of Mandarin sounds, using the English sound as a reminder or mnemetic of what the actual sound is.

Hope this is helpful.

[adrianlondon]

That "sound position diagram" is really useful!

Another sound I find very very hard to imitate (and all the Chinese people I speak with don't know what I'm on about, and say "but your pronunciation is perfect!" is the "iyin" sound.

When they say 行, for example, the "i" has a sort of "y" in it. Not at the start, but right in the middle of it. It kind of sounds like "shiyiing". I think it's a Beijing thing, but unlike the er-hua, I really like it. Any tips? I can't seem to get it right.

[ann_snow]

Adrianlondon

I will try to make it clear about your problem.

In Mandarin, 'x' sounds like 'c' in English. but when we pronounce it, we never prevent the airflow like pronounce 'c' in English.

so '行' is 'xing' in pinyin, you can try it pronouce the 'x' first.

[Gulao]

Adrianlondon:

Your question can be answered by looking at the zhuyin fuhao for the same sound structure. They are: ㄒ一ㄥ. ㄒ means the x sound in Pinyin. 一 is the i/y sound. ㄥ is not "ing"; rather it is eng. So what you're really looking at is "xieng." The "i" part of the sound is not a straight vowel, but a diphthong, from high forward to neutral. This also illuminates the way words like "xiong" are pronounced. This time, the the diphthong is rounded. Essentially, you say, "xieng", but you round your lips like when saying "oo."

This is the same reason that you pronounce words like "hun" more like "huen," and so on. A lot of the sounds are just said so quickly that one can't tell without listening closely.

[adrianlondon]

Thanks for that! I'm going to sit here and practice ...

[djwebb2004]

Yes, strong aspiration is what it is. But it is not restricted to "tebie". Basically, the aspirated Chinese consonants often sound like they have a "kh" sound - ie like a Spanish j, or a Russian x, or the "ch" in the German word "ach" or the Scottish word "loch". The rude word c-a-o4 often sounds like: ts-kh-ao.

[djwebb2004]

Adrian, in some other Romanization systems, xing is "sying" or "hsying", which represent the sound better (to an English speaker that is, not necessarily to anyone else!)