Is it possible to work here w/o chinese speaking ablity?

[Yumirainy]

My fiancee is american, I was trying to convince him into moving to China for few years, before I could get a Visa and move to US later, however, he's been so afraid and uncertain of that, I could understand his concern. Its been a good while working in the company hes in right now, as an IT developer, hes getting ok salary there and like he said, living comfortably. I told him that I believe he would be able to find a job here too, he thinks that chinese people's monthly salary is kinda low, but I tried to explain to him that our living standards are not that high either, and perhaps, we could be better off, also we will be moving back to US later after a few years.

He recently visited Shanghai for a couple of weeks, however, he still questions about the wealthy problem in China, he asked me :" If I could find a good job there, how come there are so many poor people in China...?"

I've been trying to find all infos to show him that it is not that scary to work here just for a few years...but Im not quite sure either... I want to know if anyone could help me to answer this question, is it possible for him(as an American born asian) to find a job here?

Any help would be appreciated. I just wish I could be together with him asap, being apart all the time sometimes make me lose hopes...

[Yang Rui]

I think your fiance's concerns are entirely justified and you have to try to understand things from his point of view.

China can be a strange intimidating place if you can't read or speak Chinese. At the moment he is presumably fairly independent, but if he moves to China he will have to rely totally on you for all kinds of things because of the language problem. This might make him feel frustrated unless he quickly learns to speak Chinese. It's possible that you might also begin to feel frustrated because he's dependent on you. I don't know anything about your relationship, but these are possibilities you have to consider.

Also, it may well be possible for him to find a JOB in China, but what about a CAREER? He could teach English and earn a lot of money, but when he returns to the US after a "few years" and wants to resume a career in IT (i'm guessing a very fast-moving industry that doesn't favour career-breaks) will he be able to just slip back into a good career? If things don't work out, he will have thrown away a perfectly good career that could have provided stability for you both.

Lots of people do work in China without being able to speak Chinese. I think these are often senior managers or technical people. I suppose whether your husband will be able to find a job in China or not depends on the demand for his skills. I suggest you look at job vacancies advertised in the US for vacancies in China.

Ultimately, as i said before, i don't know anything about your relationship, and can only suggest possibilities. One possibility is that you are being quite selfish and refuse to acknowledge your fiance's perfectly reasonable concerns. Maybe you believe love can conquer all. Maybe it can. But in purely practical terms of jobs and careers, it could just as easily be a disaster as a success. Your fiance is naturally very concerned about this. I hope things work out for you, but remember that what you're asking of him is a BIG ask.

[Yumirainy]

Thanks for replying.

I do understand his concern. and yes not being able to speak Chinese is quite difficult to live here. We met when I was studying oversea, and I've been trying very hard to improve my English ability to communicate with him better.

A few days ago, we had this biggest argument about where to live, I told him that I will have to come back to China once in a while, even after I went back to U.S. I told him that I hope to be able to take care of my parents, and to live in the country I was borned in, for a few years sometime later...

He told me, that he doesn't want to live like that because he worry about the life in China. He also told me, how comfortably he lives right now, and that he want to be in the U.S permanently.

To me, he's more worried about if life in China is as good as U.S or not. and Yes, I do believe that love can conquer anything, to overcome the difficulties.

Anyways, I will take whatever is best for us, a good relationship always need compromise and understanding.

[Yang Rui]

Yumirainy - you sound like a sensitive person which is a great sign i think.

But you're facing a really huge and fundamental problem which i think in the modern world a lot of couples face - where to locate.

I've been in a similar situation to you and your fiance and it's scary - and i speak fluent Chinese and have spent time in China. The situation still isn't completely resolved (i need to find a good "career-job" in China after leaving a good job in the UK) but we're going along fine. But i can't imagine doing it if i didn't speak Chinese.

This thread is supposed to be about jobs and i don't want to go off-topic but it seems to me the crucial problem here isn't about jobs. Your fiance wants to live in the US permanently and keep his job. You want to live "for some years" in China and then look after your parents in their old age too. It looks like both of you (or just one of you - not a good idea) will have to make huge painful sacrifices that may put a strain on your relationship.

What's his current employer like? Is it possible for him to take a few months off while they hold a position for him? Then he could come to China for a few months, learn some Chinese, get to know China better. He might even find a job here.

I still suggest looking for China-based vacancies with IT companies. Success may depend on your fiance's level of experience and how senior he is. If he could get a job before leaving the US that might make him feel more secure.

[johnd]

To answer the original question, it is possible to work in the Chinese IT industry without Chinese speaking ability. Companies doing outsourcing business will be writing English applications, using English documents and communicating with international customers. Your fiancee could find work that continues his career, and perhaps when he goes back to the US he will have learnt many new and marketable skills. So I don't think he needs to ditch his career, he could even view it as a career progression.

But, and it's a big but, he will have to be willing to take the massive pay cut. Unless he can fill a very senior role, or get an expat transfer from a US company, he will have to compete with the local talent.

I don't think being unable to speak Chinese will be the limiting factor.

[Crivens200]

I think you'll find that 95% of working foreigners living in Shanghai don't speak a single word of Chinese other than how to get home to their apartment after a night on the tiles. Also, the amount of foreigners kicking around SH now would suggest that it is becoming easier and easier for foreigners to find work here. Perhaps this is the wrong message board to ask this sort of question as I guess most posters here are chinese studiers . . . . which by definition kinda excludes the expat crowd in SH.

[jinjin]

Hi,

Do most hotels have an english speaking staff (mainly in the 4 star hotels)? My boyfriend is a pastry chef and may be moving to China but doesn't speak english...

[jinjin]

oops! I mean he doesn't speak chinese!

[Roee]

"I think you'll find that 95% of working foreigners living in Shanghai don't speak a single word of Chinese other than how to get home to their apartment after a night on the tiles. Also, the amount of foreigners kicking around SH now would suggest that it is becoming easier and easier for foreigners to find work here....."

I completely disagre with these statements. The days that only a handful foreigners can speak Mandarin are long over. There is a flood of Mandarin-speaking foreigners in Shanghai and it's going to triple in half a year. Mandarin is now pretty much a requirement to get a chance to find a job -- and no assurance you will get anything.

There are so many foreigners around because Shanghai is being hyped and so many are flooding here in the chance to find a job - MANY are in fact jobless, work for pennies or are involved in the "English" industy. That is being English teachers or deal with English documents etc.

If, however, you have indeed special skills and experience of course there's a chance to find a job, but that's like anywhere else.

I have friends who are coming here now, starting to learn Mandarin and hope this will get them a job. China chanes and changed fast, and so the whole Mandarin issue. Thing is about Mandarin, it takes a lot of time and a lot of hard work to get fluent and people dont really seem to take it into account when they start.

[roddy]

Agree with Roee - you can get work without Chinese, but it severely limits your options. Some years back, any one of English, Chinese and an actual skill / knowledge set would get you a decent job. Now you need at least two and increasingly all three.

Milage will always vary, and luck and determination plays a large part - but it isn't getting any easier.

Another issue, quite besides the job one, is that he's going to need Chinese just for living here - the chances of him enjoying an extended stay here are much reduced if he doesn't get to grips with the language.

[Crivens200]

""I think you'll find that 95% of working foreigners living in Shanghai don't speak a single word of Chinese other than how to get home to their apartment after a night on the tiles. Also, the amount of foreigners kicking around SH now would suggest that it is becoming easier and easier for foreigners to find work here....."

I completely disagre with these statements. The days that only a handful foreigners can speak Mandarin are long over. There is a flood of Mandarin-speaking foreigners in Shanghai and it's going to triple in half a year. Mandarin is now pretty much a requirement to get a chance to find a job -- and no assurance you will get anything.

There are so many foreigners around because Shanghai is being hyped and so many are flooding here in the chance to find a job - MANY are in fact jobless, work for pennies or are involved in the "English" industy. That is being English teachers or deal with English documents etc.

If, however, you have indeed special skills and experience of course there's a chance to find a job, but that's like anywhere else.

I have friends who are coming here now, starting to learn Mandarin and hope this will get them a job. China chanes and changed fast, and so the whole Mandarin issue. Thing is about Mandarin, it takes a lot of time and a lot of hard work to get fluent and people dont really seem to take it into account when they start."

I didn't say there weren't many foreign chinese speaker here, what I said was that 95% of foreigners living in Shanghai don't speak Chinese. I think you'll find that's true. Go to any expat chamber of commerce meeting and there's very few western chinese speakers there. Close to none western english teachers in shanghai speak chinese. Almost 100% of expat wives speak no chinese. There are definitely a lot more chinese speaking foreigners here, I agree - but there are a lot more westeners here generally. I guess the influx of chinese speaking foreigners is due to the increasing number of students that are studying it but they generally have no skills or experience so don't count :-)

Actually, what I am trying to say is that the biggest part of westerners here are too darned lazy to learn chinese . . . . and as for their f@t expat wives in their villas . . . . well don't get me started.

Just for the record, I am a chinese speaking western business man and I consider myself to be in a very small minority for my type.

[Irisher]

Hi Kumirainey,

I'm a first-time Poster here so forgive any mistakes either grammatically or subject-wise.

I don't know about China etc but as the spouse of a 'Foreigner' I can tell you that it does not work without a lot of sacrifice and hard work if one person has to basically give up their culture and everything they have grown up with ( as I did) Frankly if we - or others I have come across over the years - had realised just how much it takes we would probably have delayed getting married and DEFINITELY sought pre-marital counselling.

I know this does not address the question you asked...but it might be one way of answering the problem you see....

Again forgive me if I am wrong to post this and I hope you find true peace with whatever decision you make....