Manchurian

[Guest shinjo17]

I was just wondering what kind of language Manchurian is and how similar it is to Chinese. If anybody has any information, please share.

[skylee]

Here is some information on the Manchu alphabets.

If you google for "manchu language", you will get a lot of results.

If you can read Chinese, 吉祥滿族 is an interesting site on Manchu culture and language. The website's name "qiren" means Manchu people (旗人).

[Lu]

And then there is also Dongbeihua, which is quite similar to Mandarin.

[skylee]

And then there is also Dongbeihua, which is quite similar to Mandarin.

I think the Manchu language is different from Mandarin/Dongbeihua.

[smithsgj]

Sky's right. Manchu is from an entirely different language family (the same one as Mongolian, so Mongolic?). Nothing to do with any form of Chinese, it's not even Sino-Tibetan.

It's only spoken by a few older people.

Dongbeihua is the type of HanYu spoken in (wait for it) the North-East. It's so like putonghua, it's not even a proper fangyan. In fact, it's generally thought of as clearer/purer/standarder than Beijinghua.

[seansutton]

A little bit on the Manchu 满族 dialect. As afore said it is rarely spoken except maybe a few people in a couple of Man autonomous zones throughout the Dongbei.

Manchu is a language upon itself, in fact they are related to the Jurchens of an earlier more tribal line. Before the conquest of China they became more organized and also beefed up their military by making several alliances with their Mongolian neighbors. Infact if you go the the Forbidden City in Shenyang, the second capital of the Manchu people <Fushun was the birthplace of the nation> you will see that most of the princesses and concubines were not Manchus at all, but rather Mongolian girls given in tribal alliances.

To make a long story short, part of these alliances was the acuisition of the Mongolian script by the Manchu people. Today if you go to any Manchu built temple of palace, it will be common to see two sets of writing on the buildings, one in Chinese, Hanzi, the other in the Manchu script. If you can speak Mongolian, it does not however mean that you can speak Manchu, it is much like being able to read Russian cyrillic and be able to read some Greek. You can read, but not understand.

Lastly the use of Manchurian, be a little careful. The name refers to the name given by the Japanese manzhouguo 满洲国, and most Dongbeier do not think of themselves as manchurian at all, but rather Dongbeiren.

[nnt]

Dongbeihua is the type of HanYu spoken in (wait for it) the North-East. It's so like putonghua, it's not even a proper fangyan. In fact, it's generally thought of as clearer/purer/standarder than Beijinghua.

I've read recently in a HK magazine (The Mirror Monthly 鏡報 I think) that "mandarin" actually comes from "满大人" man3 da4 ren2, even though this origin is contested (just like the debate on the origins of "China")...

Maybe the word 官话 existed before the mandchus came to Pekin, but as under the Qing, many 官人 were 满大人 so the foreigners who translated got confused...

Well, what do you think about it?

[skylee]

I've read recently in a HK magazine (The Mirror Monthly 鏡報 I think) that "mandarin" actually comes from "满大人" man3 da4 ren2, even though this origin is contested (just like the debate on the origins of "China")...

I think this is very probable.

Maybe the word 官话 existed before the mandchus came to Pekin

Yes.

[Lu]

Dongbeihua is the type of HanYu spoken in (wait for it) the North-East. It's so like putonghua, it's not even a proper fangyan. In fact, it's generally thought of as clearer/purer/standarder than Beijinghua.

Not really, they have their own words, like 俺 an3 for I, me.

雪村 Xue Cun sings ‘俺们这嘎都是东北人' and that is definately Dongbeihua and not Mandarin.

[skylee]

BTW, 俺 is also used in Japanese, pronounced as "ore". Same meaning.

[39degN]

Dongbeihua is the type of HanYu spoken in (wait for it) the North-East. It's so like putonghua' date=' it's not even a proper fangyan. In fact, it's generally thought of as clearer/purer/standarder than Beijinghua.[/quote']Not really, they have their own words, like 俺 an3 for I, me.

雪村 Xue Cun sings ‘俺们这嘎都是东北人' and that is definately Dongbeihua and not Mandarin.

actually it's not reall dong bei hua, in dong bei hua, it will be"咱(zan2 or zan3) 这(zei4)疙(ga1)瘩(da1)都是东北人(yin2)"

咱这疙瘩都是东北人

[Guest white_watcher86]

Yepyep smithsgj! Manchu is part of another language family --- which is Altaic. It includes, Mongolian, Tungusic, Turkic, and according to some theories: Korean and Japanese as well.

[roddy]

Not really, they have their own words, like 俺 an3 for I, me.

Is that just the Great Dongbei? I think I've read it in interviews with people from other places as well.

Roddy

[39degN]

Not really, they have their own words, like 俺 an3 for I, me.

Is that just the Great Dongbei? I think I've read it in interviews with people from other places as well.

Roddy

yeah, i dont think the 俺 is a natural dongbeihua saying, lack of dongbeiers use it, also, you will offten hear it from other place,such as he nan, he bei, si chuan probably....

[seansutton]

I read about the 满大人 from Jonathan Spence. He attributes it to the pidgin Chinese and pidgin English spoken in and around Canton at the time.

IT would make sense given that the Manchu officials were not really all that numerically superior in Guangdong at the time. The Manchu seemed to have much looser control over this area and the SW at the time. And if the 洋人 <ocean people> wanted to do anything it had to be approved by the local big offical that usually happened to be a Manchu or assigned by the Qing court in Beijing.

[seansutton]

I dont think that Dongbeihua is really any fixed language. If you go to jinzhou, then Shenyang, and lastly to Dalian, you will find they all have their own dialect that is quite different than the others. Jinzhou people end all sentences with an up tone. Shenyang people cannot say Sh if their lives depended on it, and Dalian hua is a different animal all in itself.

Every city in China has its own way of speaking, to say that all of the Dongbei speaks the same fanyan, would be over simplifying something very complex. The language of Zhao Benshan and Xue Cun only picks that of the "over generalized dongbei peasant" but it is not the whole picture.