yuan2 yin1 and yuan2 gu4 different yuan2

[kudra]

I have a question about a couple vocabulary items and usage. Here is the sentence

From David and Helen in China, Chapter 16, 阅读练习 (yue4du2 lian4xi2, reading practice),

pg. 336 about half way down the essay( titled 历史名城西安)

骊山风景极美，同时温泉闻名，所以自古就是皇帝游玩的地方，这就是为什么这里有很多宫殿式建筑的缘故。

Here is some vocab notes with some questions mixed in

骊山 Li2shan1, name of a mountain outside Xi'an.

温泉 wen1quan2, warm springs

First question: xiaoma lists 温泉 as a place in Xinjiang, but Xi'an is in Shaanxi, so it's a different 温泉, right? Is it the case that the 温泉 outside Xi'an are generic warm springs?

缘故 yuan2gu4, reason, cause

原因 yuan2yin1, reason

原 of 原因 has xiaoma entry: former; original; primary; raw; level; cause; source

因 has entry: cause; reason; because

缘 has entry: along; predestined affinity; reason; edge

故 has entry: happening; instance; reason; cause; deceased; old

Here is the 2nd question:

My impression is that 原因 is a more entry level vocabulary word, while 缘故 is a bit more formal. Perhaps 缘故 has more of a flavor of causality, or a story behind the reason for something. This is my impression based on knowing the word 故事. This could be a false association based on my limited vocabulary, and my brain's desire to make meaningful connections. After reading this, I try to be on my guard about making connectinons that might not actually be there. Can some native speaker, or sufficiently advanced speaker comment on this?

Thanks.

[HashiriKata]

In the context of the sentence you gave, I think 温泉 is just a word meaning "hot springs". Of course, it could be a place name elsewhere.

[HashiriKata]

Seeing that no one has attempted answering your 2nd question, I'll have a go, even if it's only to provoke someone to contradict :

I very much agree with your remark that "原因 is a more entry level vocabulary word, while 缘故 is a bit more formal" and I don't think there is any other significant difference between the two in their normal usage (ie., excluding when 缘故 is used in special contexts such as philosophical or religious discussions). The existence of a hybridized item, 原故, seems to lend support to the assumption that 缘故 and 原因 are near-synonyms and can be used interchangeably.

[sheep412]

1.温泉only mean generic warm/hot springs,so there are also 温泉s in Yellowstone national Park:wink:

2.This question is very interesting.Basically ,原因 is a common word,and 缘故 is a literary word,sorta like a big word in english.and i have to let you down,cuz this 故 in 缘故 has different meaning from the 故 in 故事，hehe,so no story here.the 故 in 故事 means "old things,past things",but here,it means “reason",and the 缘 here means "reason/cause" too,so i think here its a "parallel from" word(sorry,i translated it by myself ,maybe there is a certain name in your chinese text book) which means two characters have the same/similar meaning are combined to be a word ,which has the same/similar meaning too.So now back to 原因,the difference is 原 is an adj here,means "original",and 因 means "reason" ,so the literal translation is "the original reason".and this is called “minor-major" form( again,its my translation),in this form,the character A is describing the character B,such as some word like "dragonfly",hehe.so actually,you also can say 原故（mm.form) and 缘因 (p. form),but you can not put 因 and 故 together.

[kudra]

Thanks HashiriKata.

So I looked in a couple dictionaries and did not find 原故. But it seems to turn up in google. When you say hybridization, do you mean users are "lazily" using 原 instead of 缘 to say yuan2gu4? I'm not trying to be 语言 Polizei, (ha, as if I'm qualified!), I am just wondering if this is an example of evolution of a written form being used popularly before it gets codified in dictionaries. If this is the case, if there is interest we can take a poll to see who thinks it's legitimate evolution or just bad/incorrect usage. If it is evolution, I'm sure all of us who are working hard to remember what character goes with what homophone really appreciate realizing that the native speaking population can change the rules on us at any moment. OK I'm exaggerating.

[skylee]

From my favourite dictionary.

[gato]

Interesting about the use of adjectives in front of 缘故. For some reason, my 《应用汉语词典》 doesn't mention that. Instead it says that the difference between 原因 and 缘故 is that 原因's use is broader whereas 缘故 is used only for common matters (e.g. personal matters). It says that 原因 can be used everywhere 缘故 is used, whereas the reverse is not true.

The example it gives is "这场战争发生的原因是多方面的." Here it says 原因 cannot be replaced with 缘故 because a war is a major event.

Any comments?

[kudra]

Thanks skylee. So I guess we don't get to take a poll.

To facilitate looking up some of that vocabulary Here is a soft copy. Good exercise for me.

If you paste it into adso, N.B. there are few odd parsings here and there.

造成某种結果的條件。也作”原故”。

辨析[緣故-原因]都是名詞， 都指引起某件事情發生的條件。區別在：”緣故”一般不單獨使用，前頭必須帶修飾語，修飾語一般是説明，解釋原因的，如“他也許是太勞累的緣故，一躺下更呼呼睡着了”，“太勞累”説明了原因；“原因”可以單獨使用，也可以帶修飾語，修飾語是有待解釋説明的，如“他學習成績好的原因是多方面”，”學習成績好”必須説明其原因.

造成某种结果的条件。也作”原故”。

辨析[缘故-原因]都是名词， 都指引起某件事情发生的条件。区别在：”缘故”一

般不单独使用，前头必须带修饰语，修饰语一般是说明，解释原因的，如“他也许

是太劳累的缘故，一躺下更呼呼睡著了”，“太劳累”说明了原因；“原因”可以

单独使用，也可以带修饰语，修饰语是有待解释说明的，如“他学习成绩好的原因

是多方面”，”学习成绩好”必须说明其原因.

[ShakeSpace]

IMO 缘故 cannot be the subject of a sentence. e.g. you can say 这件事的原因是那件事 but you cannot use 缘故 here.

another difference is the adjectives you apply on these two words. Lets say A is the cause of B, then you can use A的原因 or B的原因 (depending on the context), and you can use A的缘故, but not B的缘故. i.e. you can say:

1. B的原因是A.

or 2. B发生了，这是因为A的缘故/原因

But "B的缘故是A." is incorrect

[HashiriKata]

I missed the whole debate !!!

Anyway, this is not to resurrect it but only to reply to some factual questions:

So I looked in a couple dictionaries and did not find 原故. But it seems to turn up in google.

Many big ones (New Century, Contemporary, Wenlin, etc) will have it.

When you say hybridization, do you mean users are "lazily" using 原 instead of 缘 to say yuan2gu4?

I wouldn't use the word "lazily" but when 2 characters are so similar both in sound and meaning, there is inevitably a tendency to mix them up.

Incidentally, it's not easy to find true "synomyms" in languages, if they exist at all. For this reason, I used the word "near-synonyms " to refer to the relationship between 原因 and 缘故.

[anonymoose]

Skylee, what dictionary is that?

[skylee]

It is 朗文中文高級新辭典.