Advice for ABC on improving Chinese to business level in 2-3 yrs?

[plucesiar]

Hi everyone, I'd like to ask for advice on how to best improve my Chinese/Mandarin within 2-3 years time (while working full-time) so that I can prepare for a move to Hong Kong for a position in the financial industry. I'm pretty much aiming for near-native level for at least conversational and reading, with writing to follow later. Because I slacked off at Chinese school but also later picked up stuff on my own, plus I speak Canto at home, my aptitude is all over the place, with some gaping holes in my foundation. Specifically:

Conversational Mandarin - Would like to improve from maintaining a 2-3 min conversation on trivial matters to business formal. I have particular difficulty in articulating certain thoughts due to vocab and grammar, so I end up speaking like a 7-year old a lot. It's also slightly difficult following CCTV news without reading the (Chinese) caption

Reading - I've been on reading binges and have read entire novels (e.g. 金庸, but of course couldn't understand all vocab), but that was about 5 years ago. It's definitely difficult retaining new vocab without constant review. It's also difficult for me to comprehend formal style Chinese written on newspapers (Wall Street Journal, for example) and reports without going to the dictionary a lot, especially for those "filler" vocabs, a problem that seems to frustrate many other users on this forum

Writing - I write like a grade 3, it's miserable. Many grammatical and diction mistakes

I'm aware of many threads on this forum that have similar topics, so I'm looking more of an opinion on whether my strategy would be an optimal use of time, as I'll also be working a full-time job. In order of priority, I'm planning to:

• finding a tutor on italki to practice 1-2 sessions/week
  
• force myself to memorize at least the first 2,000 characters from http://www.zein.se/patrick/3000char.html
  
• review business-related Chinese materials, e.g. 经济半小时, WSJ Chinese version, etc.
  
• grab some guided reader, such as 新编汉语报刊阅读教程 or 從精讀到泛讀, as mentioned here: http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/33617-need-advanced-book-suggestions/
  
• use a flashcard program to record new vocab (I currently use Anki. It seems like many here mention Plecodict, how does that compare?)
  
• participate in language exchange chat rooms, although really not sure yet
  

Thanks!!

[skylee]

As usual I don't have any useful information/advice to offer. I think if your plan is just to move to Hong Kong for a financial position then fluent English and Cantonese will be enough. There are still a lot of people working in Hong Kong who do not speak Chinese (but with other expertise, of course). But of course proficiency in Putonghua and written Chinese will always be a plus.

Also, if the aim is to move to HK, I suggest you familiarise yourself with the traditional script, or both the traditional and simplified scripts. The Chinese characters in #1 are a mix of the two scripts.

[gato]

Plucesiar, it sounds like you've plucked the best ideas from this forum already. How is your pronunciation in Mandarin? If you have a heavy accent, I would also try to focus on that initially when you work with a tutor.

Would you say that you are conversationally fluent already in Mandarin? If so, I would put more time into reading than oral.

I started at probably about the same level as you when I came to China six years ago, except I am a native Mandarin speaker rather than a Cantonese speaker, so I let the speaking and listening take care of themselves and focused exclusively on reading and flashcards.

[HusbandOfWuhan]

Just watch lots of Chinese TV dramas that are set around modern business relationships.

[WestTexas]

I think if your plan is just to move to Hong Kong for a financial position then fluent English and Cantonese will be enough. There are still a lot of people working in Hong Kong who do not speak Chinese (but with other expertise, of course)

This. From what I've read many people from Hong Kong speak better English than Mandarin.

[OneEye]

I don't think the question was "what do you think about my reasons for wanting to improve my Chinese?" so I'll just stick with what the OP actually asked.

It sounds like you're on the right track. Like skylee said, you ought to familiarize yourself with traditional characters. Though if watching and reading mainland news is a priority for you, don't give up simplified characters either.

《從精讀到泛讀》 is an outstanding book (it's also all in traditional characters). I've recently started studying it, myself. It consists of unedited essays and articles in various fields, written by native speakers, for native speakers. That book plus reading newspapers, books, magazine articles, and so on should do the trick as far as reading. Try to mostly read things like business news since it will be the most relevant to your needs, but make sure to branch out into other areas too, and fairly often.

With writing, I think your best bet is to hire a tutor and write essays as often as possible, getting him/her to correct you ruthlessly every time. Maybe a 1-2 page opinion on a recent news story (preferably business news more often than not since that's your field) once or twice every week. Every once in a while, write something longer. Once you get the paper back, go through all your errors meticulously (this is painful), and then try not to make those mistakes again. Easier said than done, of course.

Of course, nothing will do as much for your Chinese ability as a year in a Chinese-speaking country (except for two years). If you can swing it, move to Taiwan or China to work while you spend as much time outside work working on your language skills as you can. There's no better way to develop a natural-sounding facility with the language than to live in it for an extended period of time. Of course, if this isn't an option, don't let it hold you back. Just work as hard as you can wherever you live, and try to hang out with other Mandarin speakers as much as you can.

[plucesiar]

Thank you for the responses!

In terms of my accent when speaking Mandarin, I actually don't have any of the traditional Cantonese-accents. I'd say my accent is closer to a Taiwanese-accented Mandarin (don't ask me why). I have some trouble with adapting to more northern accents, but my Mandarin speaking friends say it's not a big problem. The biggest difficulty I have is talking about more advanced topics. E.g. if I were to give a self-introduction in a Mandarin-based interview, I could give a few sentences and freeze up. The Chinese school I went to was HK-based, so I am actually far more comfortable with traditional Chinese than simplified. It just seems like HK is such a hub for mainland Chinese-based business activity, that simplified is probably even more important. I also find that when I'm nervous, regardless of what advanced vocab I've picked up, they all fly out the window, which is something I definitely need to work on with a tutor.

HusbandofWuhan: do you mind sharing some suggestions for business-focused TV dramas?

[gato]

It's a bit hard to figure out what level you are at. Can you really read 金庸 but still don't know the 2000 most frequently used characters and have trouble introducing yourself beyond a few sentences? Is the latter caused by the nervousness you mentioned.

if you can read newspaper / magazine articles, I think a good practice would be for both you and a tutor to read an article ahead of time and talk about it during your session. This would help to reinforce the vocabulary you learned in reading the article and extend it to speaking.

I would read http://www.caixin.com/ (新世纪周刊）instead of WSJ Chinese (or FT Chinese). 新世纪周刊 is the best business/politics magazine in China. I don't find WSJ Chinese all that interesting because it's mostly a translation and doesn't have too much original reporting. If you can, it's always better to read the original rather than a translation.

[plucesiar]

Yeah you're right, I will check caixin instead of WSJ. I did a quick skim of the 3000 characters on http://www.zein.se/p...k/3000char.html and I do know or recognize most of them. I guess the question is the degree of familiarity, because even though I recognize those characters, it's hard for me to recall when I need to use it in speech/writing. Some article on spaced repetition I read a while back mentioned that it's much easier to recognize vocab than to recall (and that's how people get really good at cramming vocab for SAT/GRE/other standardized exams). Another gauge of my aptitude is that if you were to intentionally use advanced vocab with awkward diction in a sentence, I wouldn't be able to tell.

Thanks for your suggestion of using newspaper/magazine articles with my yet-to-be tutor. I think it's a great idea